The 2013-15 state budget created a rule for some recipients of the state’s food stamp program known as FoodShare: If you’re an able-bodied adult without children living at home, you must work at least 80 hours a month or look for work to stay in the program.
That rule went into effect in April, and between July and September, about 25 percent of the 60,000 recipients eligible to work were dropped from the program when the penalty took effect, according to DHS data.
Meanwhile, about 4,500 recipients found work through a new job training program for FoodShare recipients.
We’re talking about single, able-bodied adults. If they are not willing to even look for work, why should the rest of us be handing our hard-earned tax dollars to feed them? This allows those resources to be focused on those who actually need them and are trying to improve their lot in life.
Now if we can just get the farmers off welfare.
Politically, that’s a much tougher nut to crack.
And grocery stores, gas stations, convenience stores, and the rest who rely on minimum markup.
Raise your hand if you think the New Testament says “only help those who are trying to improve their lot in life.”
John,
You misconstrue the New Testament if you think Christ-like giving from the heart can be done with compulsion of a tax authority.
New Testament also says a “cheerful giver” is a true giver. Are food stamps cheerful giving from the heart or is it obligation, compulsion, and requirement to a tax authority?
So I will raise my hand about your New Testament comment.
Giving to a food pantry is more in line with the New Testament, when it’s done cheerfully from the heart in thanksgiving as part of your faith in Christ. There is no obligation there.
You are welcome to a bible study anytime on this topic.
Doing the right thing has nothing to do with religion .
The government insuring that the poor is taken care of has nothing to do with religion
The decisions made by legislators to limit or increase the number of welfare recipients
Has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with a them vs us attitude
Promulgated by the believers in makers and takers .
The gymnastics of trying to justify actions like these will be evaluated by folks like me in the present and by the omnipotent if folks like Kev are correct that he/ she actually exists
That would be an interesting discussion
To listen to
I see it as a pander to folks worst instincts
But I don’t have the omnipotent on my side .
There’s plenty of contradiction in the Bible, depending on what your contemporary heart wants to justify. What about the “give unto Caesar” verse, which directly addresses taxation by an authority you may not like?
I’m well-aware of the fine differences between charitable giving and compulsory taxation. When I hear Christians who do want to implement cherry-picked verses of the Old Testament but who don’t want to implement the broad and clear charity of the New Testament, I find it hard to understand how they make the distinction.
John,
Cherry picking vs. a deeper understanding of New, and Old Testament, is what non-Christians constantly do to discredit Christians on issue like this. I can’t help that your point backfired.
Christ encourages cheerful giving as a fruit of one’s thankful faith. The basic problem with having government provide food stamps under compulsory taxation is: it breeds the common attitude “it’s the government’s job” to take care of the poor. That discourages thankful, cheerful, giving to those in need, as Christ described.
That government policy breeds the opposite effect when it comes to the type of charitable and thankful faith in action described in New Testament that you asked people to raise your hand about.
I raised my hand because you were misconstruing that point in the New Testament. It was not about cherry picking any verse but from a fuller understanding of studying the New Testament.
Mark,
I’m fascinated that your response to my comment was: it has nothing to do with religion or Christianity.
I thought for sure you would quote your favorite Beattitude, helping the least of these. I hope my pointing out the Beattitude that encourages discernment between good and evil in our last conversation has not discouraged your further study of New Testament.
Kevin, you’re saying that the strength of people’s faith and their ability to act in that faith is swayed by something as simple as the government also doing something, like giving to the poor?
Can you think of any examples of Christians wishing to enact Biblical pronouncements in government action? Why doesn’t that diminish people’s abilities to do the same thing?
John,
I’m saying charitable attitude in general is affexcted by whether the government does it. Time and time again, socialist countries with large, econimic choking, welfare infrastructure show the people are less charitable and are more hardened when it comes to giving.
There are several cases where biblical pronouncements are enacted in law. Prohibition against murder and theft come to mind. (although prohibition against theft seems optional for liberals in Madison these days when it comes to shoplifting.)
What does Jesus think about farm subsidies and the minimum markup law?
kevin:
Once you correct the spelling and syntax, could you explain your statement (below) and show some proof? Thanks
“Time and time again, socialist countries with large, econimic choking, welfare infrastructure show the people are less charitable and are more hardened when it comes to giving”.
Murder and theft aren’t encouraged in any human society, are they? I don’t see why they get to be uniquely Biblical.
Go ahead, show me some references that support your notion that charitable giving is low in particular countries. Also correlate whether they give people a tax deduction for donations.
Google “World Giving Index”. USA is #1, followed by New Zealand, Canada, Australia, and the UK. Does this demonstrate your claim?
Kev
I would refer to the beatitudes if I thought the
Craven Republican hypocrites and and their fawning supporters at the state level
Felt the slightest interest in living them
The poor are just takers and the Godly are makers
I am studying Christianity and am convinced daily that it offers comfort to many which I’m fine with and at the same time professes to know what God thinks
Pray to God – cool !
Hear God speak to you – see your friendly shrink
Mark,
Clearly you are now attempting to be discerning between good and evil with that comment about Republicans.
Does this mean you would share the same discernment when it comes to Democrats and abortion and the least of these?
Baldy, John,
http://www.cato.org/blog/private-philanthropy-promotes-human-wellbeing
Pike,
I’m against both. We can repeal both and I don’t think any farm or business will go broke as a result.
Kev,
I am consistent in all the hot topics
Pro war / death against our sworn enemies
Pro death penalty for criminals
Pro choice for women
( or Pro death from an Evangelical standpoint )
—
One Q for you
Assuming man has been on the earth 6,000 years or as scientists believe up to 250,000 years , why did the omnipotent being stand with hands folded as man , microbes and animals killed off men , women in child birth and especially children
why did he wait 4,000 or 98,000 or 240,000 years to finally act and then only in a barbaric sacrifice ?
Why not in China ( far more able to pass a written story than the desert dwellers of Palestine) or India or in thousands of Places at once ?
Why so late and why in just one place ?
My sense is that it’s because all religion is man made
Modern religion duplicates itself in Christian and Moslem and Jewish and Mormon origin stories with huge gaps in logic and a firm belief that their story is best adapted without question .
Respectfully , I’d ask you not respond with bible quotes . Just explain the delay of a merciful being , the reason for the location and why he didn’t come again , often .
Mark,
The real question you want to ask is: Is God fair?
Am I correct?
Mark:
Great post. Well thought out and to the point. Don’t expect a cogent response from kevin.
I’m not questioning the fairness of God just why any perfect being of religion does what they by tradition do
I’m questioning the when , the why then , the why to them , the why not to others , the why not to many others , the why not more than once and the casual indifference to human suffering for 4,000 years ( by creationist beliefs )
Or up to 248,00 years ( some scientists )
By this benevolent , perfect being
That one God let us suffer for 80- 99% of our existence and as a perfect being , yawned .
Even if you split the difference and say man has been in the earth for 100,000 years , why did the omnipotent one pick just that place
( in the desert among primaries ) after 98,000 years ?
I have spent a lot of time lately looking at comparative religions .
This is just one of many questions I have about how one gets from here to there in the narrative
Mark,
To be clear, you are asking: why does a just and loving God allow suffering in the world?
(Which is a more specific version of the, “Is God Fair”? question.)
No , only because it generates a rehearsed andwer that question
Respectfully ,
Man made religion (all of it ) includes a Superior Being revealed to a minority
Who build a business model and industry
On repeated myths of Virgin Birth , Angels ,
Prophets and latter revelations that reinforce
/ replace the inconsistencies and leaps in logic that literal interpretations consistently
Bring up
Even within religions , there are argument and even wars ( Bosnia ) where both sides of the american faith want to kill each other justifiably , all after we were saved 2000 years go after up to 250,000 years of
Deity indifference ?
My question was specific to the Christ as Redeemer story ( repeated with differ names in other religions origin. Stories )
Why not sooner ?
Why there ?
Why just those that person ( the apostles or Joseph Smith or Mohammed )
Why not again ?
Why were all the folks on the earth guilty at birth and needed to have a blood sacrifice just once ?
Christipher Hitchens book ” God is not great”
Poses that the burden of proof lies with those who propose to explain everything we don’t know currently as ascribed to a Supernatural being ( in all religions )
I would ask you to read the book and watch Hitchens debates Christians and Moslems on you tube
I don’t assume that will change your beliefs in any way ,. I only ask that you hear with an open mind and think about the questions a non believer like me ask themselves
When posed with the premise of a Diety actively involved in people’s daily lives .
Sorry for the grammatical / spelling issues .
I am after all , the product of the secular education of the cheapest state school in Indiana ;)
Mark,
Was not trying to steer your question, just trying to get clear on what you were asking.
My answers are not “rehearsed”.
Would you like me answer the questions in the previous post?
It seems that you sense I can answer the “Is God Fair?” or the “why would a just and loving God allow suffering in the world?” questions, so you changed them up a bit.
Do you really want to hear the answers? Or are you just looking for a question for me to trip on?