Governor Evers wants to impose onerous and expensive new restrictions on farmers. Thankfully, Nass is sticking up for the farmers.
A key Republican lawmaker vowed Wednesday to block new state restrictions designed to protect farmers’ neighbors from the stench of manure following a flurry of complaints from Wisconsin’s agricultural community.
The Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection has spent the last three years drafting revisions to farm siting regulations. The latest version calls for dramatically expanding manure storage facility setbacks from neighbors’ property lines for new farms and farms looking to expand.
Sen. Steve Nass, R-Whitewater, co-chairman of the Legislature’s rules committee, issued a terse statement Wednesday accusing department “bureaucrats” of ignoring the industry’s concerns and making life harder for farmers. He promised to do everything he can to block the rules if they reach his committee in their present form.
I don’t remember who first said it to me, but whenever I am in the country and that manure smell wafts through my nostrils, I say, “mmm… smells like money.” That smell represents the hard work that farmers do to feed their families and ours. Instead of trying to make farms smell better for the sensibilities of suburbanites and city dwellers, let’s educate people on the importance of farming, because nobody cares about the smell of shit when they are starving.
Nord is cheering Evers on this one.
Well right now the smell of manure doesn’t mean money. Haven’t you been paying any attention to the struggles in ag right now, particularly WI dairy?
And if that manure pit was going in 500′ from your house I’m pretty sure you would smell anything but manure.
Nord,
Your liberal hate of farmers is evident, no need to make a big display of it.
k:
No hate for farmers from this riral som of the sod. My best friends are farmers, both of our kids work in the ag business . Once again you make assumptions without any data. That doesn’t enhance your credibility
k:
No hate for farmers from this rural living son of the sod. My best friends are farmers, both of our kids work in the ag business . Once again you make assumptions without any data. That doesn’t enhance your credibility
Nord
So do you support Evers thumping on farmers here, or not?
You do a lot of double talk.
k:
I support the fair and even treatment of all members of society, and protecting the health and welfare of all. If polluted groundwater is your thing, move to Kewaunee County. If the smell of manure is your passion, I can show you lots of places on the market that can provide that for you.
But if you want to talk about who “hates” farmers, look no farther than the tariff boondoggle put in place by your idol. Check out how much that is costing the farmers, suppliers, rural communities, and associated industries. And the billions of taxpayer $$ being paid to offset the tariff related losses. You really need to stay current on issues you feel compelled to comment on..
And I apologize for the double post. I was trying to correct a couple typos and re-posted by mistake.. Sorry if it upsets your compulsion for accuracy. My bad.
Ag has changed a great deal. A CAFO’s manure pit isn’t the same beast as the feed lot you drove past and smelled twenty years ago. Again, look at the science.
Get downstream of one of today’s concentrated operations and you can measure the concentrations of the emissions – the ones you can smell, the ones you can’t.
If the homes downwind are subjected to continuous, sustained concentrations of, say, hydrogen sulfide at levels you wouldn’t be allowed to have in a factory – that you wouldn’t want to be exposed to yourself, out of danger – then it’s time to consider the effects of the manure pit or the chicken operation.
And then there’s the particulates. Again, like any poison, it’s the dose. It’s not a 50 or 100 head barn like twenty years ago. There’s so much more of everything. It’s very difficult to handle and process all the wastes.
Business, be it a farm or not, does not have a right to harm others.
Common sense, folks. Does any true conservative want more government rules and regulations? We already have zoning regulations.
Nord,
So yes, you want Evers to hammer your farmer “friends”….
Some liberal friend you are.
Nope, I didn’t say that. You are lying again.
So you are celebrating Nass criticizing this hate farmers Evers initiative?
Finally, we agree on something substantive.
Nope, you are lying again. I doubt we will ever agree on much. I’m all about truth and honesty. You, not so much.
And to this civil and reasoned debate, let’s add “growth.” Golly, why are all those people moving out into the country, encroaching on farms? Who’s pushing for endless growth as a way to solve government financial problems?
Let’s read about news in Wisconsin’s dairy industry.
https://www.wisconsinwatch.org/tag/dairy-farming/
jjf:
Putting facts in front of k won’t make him happy. Goes against his religion.
Nord,
Just trying to gauge where you are on this Evers regulatory thumping of farmers.
You seem to be doing a lot of doublespeak.
As near as I can tell, you support the Evers thumping farmers with this regulation, but then deny it.
Be proud of your liberal regulatory hassling. Be honest.
Nope, I didn’t say that. But go on believing whatever you want .
Wisconsin dairy farms are in trouble for two reasons: 1) declining market for milk products; and 2) declining market for Wisconsin-specific milk products such as bottled milk and cheese.
Some milk products have seen growth, but Wisconsin processors don’t make them.
Finally, the 40-head herd is an anachronism, like it or not. The ultra-large ops that Jiffy despises are what works, economies of scale and all that.
Is that a GOOD thing? I have my doubts; but it’s happening.
My opinion of CAFOs means little to nothing. You can also talk to CAFo operators, and they are struggling and they will tell you their model isn’t really “working” either… it’s not like they see a light at the end of the tunnel, that if they could only reach 4,000 head then they’d be set.
And you damn well know that too, Dad29. Don’t play stupid with me. You know the huge welfare involved here. How come that kind of welfare doesn’t harm the farmers like the food stamps hurt others? More cows, more manure. What do you do with it?
If your family homestead farm was down the road from the neighbor’s homestead farm that’s now a growing CAFO, and over the last few years your well water starts to turn brown and the nitrate test comes back over the line, the smell gets worse and worse to where you don’t even want to sit on the porch, and the roads are falling apart because the manure trucks are hauling every 30 minutes, when you can no longer hang your laundry on the line because of the smell, and the trout in the old creek where grandpa fished have died because of the neighbor’s accidental spills and runoff, do you just stick your nose in the wind and say “that’s the smell of their money”?
It’s not just the new neighbors. It’s the old neighbors, too. Everyone is affected. Just business, right? Where’s the talk of personal responsibility now? Does the CAFO have a right to harm you?
Actually, Jiffy, I’ve never been on Farmer Welfare, so I don’t “damn well” know anything about it. It appears that you’re a subject-matter expert, though. Tell me about Farm Welfare.
Looks like there will be a number of BK’s being filed and a lot of cows will become hamburgers soon.
And I STILL don’t know if CAFOs are a good thing. But maybe the manure should be exported to D.C., where it will meet a lot of other manure.
Finally dud speaks the truth, “I don’t “damn well” know anything”.
I see Dad29 is as brave as Nass and the WisGOP when it comes to admitting the nature of what’s happening. An expert on the upper management of Gm, but he’s never heard of farm subsidies. As long as there’s cheap milk for his Cheerios, who cares?
Nord,
Still not sure where you stand. Are you embracing Evers abusive regulation against farmers here?
Did you read the story quoted here, Kevin? “The Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection has spent the last three years drafting revisions to farm siting regulations..”
jjf,
Yes, and Evers never met a regulation he did not want to inflict.
It is job of elected officials to say “no” to burdensome regulation, especially that of agencies promulgating rules.
I treat all bureaucratic agency rule promulgation as problematic. It is a a “gotcha” mentality that I am sick of being the recipient of. Just in my industry alone, there has been several iterations of “gitcha” rule promulgation on sales tax…it is disgusting.
But, I see you embrace your liberal disgust. I admire your honesty.
Tell us about Farmer Welfare, FFA spokes- Jiffy. Tell us, so we know, O Great One!! You have knowledge! Share with the masses!!
Look everyone! Dad29 is pretending he’s never heard of the farm bill! Or ag subsidies!
k:
Remember, you don’t get to speak for me. My position is that manure storage facilities should be sited so they don’t cause problems for the neighbors. walker etal revoked the ability of local government having a say in the siting criteria, so don’t start yapping about something you know less than nothing about.
Awww, Jiffy. Don’t you want to tell us all about how your fam lived on Farmer Welfare?
I know about the ethanol mandate and that there are such things as crop insurance and cash-to-NOT-grow stuff. But your insider knowledge will be so much better!
Unless you lack knowledge, which is very often the case. Isn’t there an MS-Basic program you have to fix?
Dad29, you require direct personal experience from anyone else, or just me?
It’s true, I once had 40 acres and a pickup and a tractor. I’ve probably butchered more animals and sheared more sheep than you. My first programming job was with the College of Ag at UW-Madison. I once worked for Extension and trained county ag agents. Some of my cousins till thousands of acres. Some of my uncles owned banks and implement stores and hatcheries in farm towns.
But I’m sure you know about the Farm Bill. You seem to know about a lot of things that I bet you’ve never done.
Nice background. What went wrong with you?
Nord,
So you want to intentionally make life much harder for your “farmer friends”.
With “friends” such as yourself….who needs enemies?
>What went wrong with you?
He turned into a Liberal.
Aw, so you wanted to use my personal background as a foundation for insults, not discussion. Is Paul your son?
None of this prevents you from discussing whether milk price supports have anything to do with CAFOs, and therefore anything to do with the manure in the water, which is what this post is about.
Speaking of tariffs, Le Roi, I hear Swiss Colony is having a great deal of trouble because of Trump’s tariffs. Another Wisconsin business, so much winning, you won’t believe the winning.
k:
No, you are making that up yet again.
I was at a gathering last night with a couple dozen of my true farmer friends. They ranged in age from mid-30’s taking over the family operation to recently retired. They were much more concerned with the long-term impacts of the unnecessary tariffs on their markets than they were about manure storage/siting/management, which they view as an opportunity for wise use of a nutrient source and maintaining good relationships with neighbors.
Once again you opine on a subject that you have no knowledge.
Jiffy, that wasn’t an insult; that was an expression of concern.
And frankly, I don’t intend to study up on Farmer Welfare. That can be your personal specialty.
Nord,
If farmers are concerned about being good neighbors as you say… Why does Evers need to regulate at all?
So if the government props up the price of milk with subsidies, insuring farmers can “make money,” then might that have some effect on whether they think they need to expand their herd to contemporary CAFO size, in order to stay afloat “go big or go home”?
Why do food stamps and other welfare cause generational problems in urban settings, but cause nostalgic country music anthems in rural settings?
k:
Can you read? Or are you intentionally twisting what I said to prop up your lack of knowledge? Either way you are making a fool out of yourself again.
Nord,
You talked about the pure intentions of your farmer friends. If they are so pure, why would you support regulating them, or burdening good people?
k:
Again I ask: Can.You.Read?
Obviously not. I never, ever mentioned any “pure intentions, but rather that my friends weren’t worried about manure management rules compared to the long-term damage caused by the tariffs to their markets.
Why must you be so dishonest?
Nord,
So you support slapping regulation on your friends?
I support practical, achievable, and scientifically/economically feasible regulations that protect all interested parties; surface and ground water, air quality, neighborhood relations, property values, and the farming community.
I have told you that before. Don’t be so willfully ignorant.
Nord,
“Economically feasible regulations”….curious what color of the sky is in your world on that one.
You have been supportive in past of Kewaskum’s $7 million sewer plant mandate for little or no benefit on water quality.
Again, you are making claims with no knowledge.
Re: Your STP, you have continually failed to provide any proof that there was little or no water quality benefit. You have had lots of chances. What are you afraid of?? Truth?
“Trump’s farm bailout has cost taxpayers more than double the auto bailout”
And this is only a drop in the bucket of welfare for farmers.
Nord,
We posted the data. You ignored it. Water is no cleaner after than before!
That makes you a liar and hypocrite on regulation.
Why do you hate your farmer friends?
k:
No you didn’t provide any data. You actually refused because it would be “too much work with little benefit”. That’s a quote.
And no, I’m not a hypocrite on regulation. I am consistent and fair.
And no, I don’t hate my farmer friends, nor anyone else, not even you.
Nord,
I did link to data and wastewater permit.
No, you didn’t.
Nord
Pretty weak way to take focus off your love of the heavy, expensive, regulation and your hate of farmers.
Try to stop the hate.
k:
I support the fair and even treatment of all members of society, and protecting the health and welfare of all. If polluted groundwater is your thing, move to Kewaunee County. If the smell of manure is your passion, I can show you lots of places on the market that can provide that for you.
But if you want to talk about who “hates” farmers, look no farther than the tariff boondoggle put in place by your idol. Check out how much that is costing the farmers, suppliers, rural communities, and associated industries. And the billions of taxpayer $$ being paid to offset the tariff related losses. You really need to stay current on issues you feel compelled to comment on..
Nord,
“Fair and even treatment”—at bullying expense of your farmer “friends”.
Just keep bullying. Farmers love that.
I told you my position, and based it on my past practices. But you are free to believe whatever you want, regardless of how wrong those beliefs may be.
Some farmers are more equal than others? One farmer can poison the water supplies of another farmer?
I guess bullying it is!
Poor farmers.
Why can’t you liberals just be nice?
Why can’t you have some measure of intelligence?
Nord,
Asking you to be nice to farmers is a problem?
I think what Kevin is saying is there needs to be even more subsidy and market protection for farmers.
Jjf,
No,just stop being a liberal regulatory bully.
Times change, Kevin. Today’s CAFO manure pits aren’t the same thing as grandpappy’s feed lot. You think regulation shouldn’t change in step?
If you’re a farmer, can you harm the neighbor’s drinking water?
JJf,
Then all Nord has to admit is: these are expensive,new, regulations being inflicted on poor farmers.
He claims to have “farmer “friends”.
Inflicting and celebrating regulatory hardship on one’s friends is a sign of bullying.
The bitch here is: Nord pretends there is no cost and no hardship to thee regulations while claiming his friends want this.
That is dishonest.
Pretending that water isn’t being tainted, that air can become so bad as to destroy the neighbor’s freedom to be outside their home… you think that has no cost or hardship?
jjf,
I missed the part where this regulation would do anything to prevented tainted water?
This is more about neighbors moving near farms and complaining farms are farms.
k:
You missed it because the are “proposed” rules, not yet codified nor enacted.
And no, it isn’t about “neighbors moving near farms and complaining farms are farms”.
Why be so dishonest when you are so easily proven wrong time after time??
Nord,
That is when you oppose a ridiculous rule, when they are proposed!
Your point on that is just stupid.
Can you squeeze out any opposition to these rules on behalf of your “farmer friends”?
Or do you still insist on bullying your “friends”?
Seems like a huge contradiction to me. No one purposely punishes their friends, unless they lie about being friends in first place. Do you lie about being friends with people?
OK, Kevin, then tainted air. If you couldn’t have level X of hydrogen sulfide in the air of your DQ, why can a farmer have a manure pit that subjects the neighbors to that same level?
Then make a rule punishing farmer if sulfide level is unacceptable in neighbors yard, rather than an arbitrary distance rule. Or limiting the air issue at source, with eye toward education and warning, rather than arbitrary distance rule.
But these rules don’t do that. It is punish, punish, punish…that is what liberal tyrants do.
So then you agree with me that what you said (below) is nonsense?
“I missed the part where this regulation would do anything to prevented tainted water?
This is more about neighbors moving near farms and complaining farms are farms”.
Here’s a story about a farm that Nass is actively assisting, right now.
Turns out it’s not cow “smell of money” manure, it’s human manure, in an open pond. Pecunia non olet, hmm?
Here’s what farmers should do in WI to rebel against you liberals and your horrific worldview!
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49891449
Smell of money, smell of money… how much extra money did Trump hand to the farmers?
Finally… A worthy name for Kevin’s new blog…
“TALKING SHIT with Scheunemann”
I cannot believe people still entertain Kevin’s crap (sticking with the theme).
It is so repetitive, so mind numbing and so full of shit!…
B&S is clearly Kevin’s manure storage facility.
I think I can arrange for a truck full of turds to be parked in front of your house or maybe your DQ. See how long that lasts.
Speaking of DQ… That’s really what this is all about. Any regulation might make the price of beef, cheese etc (if it is actual cheese and beef at DQ) go up. Same reason he doesn’t care about all the pollution caused by the oil and natural gas industry… It’s a big part of his financial portfolio.
Hey Kevin, on what bizarro planet do you live where conservatives don’t regulate? You don’t have to answer that…
k:
You do realize that the article you posted has nothing to do with manure storage, right?
NH:
You have a future here. Carry on !
Le Roi, I think the “you’re not from around here, are you?” argument is popular in this context. It supposes that if you were raised here, you’d be accustomed to the smell.
But the truth isn’t simple. The smells are getting much worse. The spills are bigger, wiping out streams in hours. The well water is becoming contaminated.
It’s not just the newcomers who object. It’s the people who’ve lived there all along, down the road from the farm in question. And frankly, plenty of people who choose to live in the country may have come from a farming background, too, even if they’re not operating a farm today.
Again, Kevin, does a farmer have a right to harm his neighbors?
NHollane,
NHolland,
If I tried to name my blog as you suggest “talking (excrement)”, local liberals might sue for copyright violation.
Jff, Nord,
It has more to do with issues and pressures of farmers at hand than screaming “Trump” which both of you indulged several times.
Liberal regulation hurts farmers.
But you don’t care about who you hurt, do you?
I have no doubt that farmers have all sorts of pressures. I don’t think they have a right to impair the health of their neighbors, nor to make the surrounding area unlivable. The neighbors don’t want their neighbor to go out of business, nor do they think they shouldn’t be able to make a living at farming. They just don’t want brown water that harms. They don’t want the fresh country breeze to be replaced with continuous stench.
Why do food stamps and other welfare cause generational problems in urban settings, but huge farm welfare causes nostalgic country music anthems in rural settings?
k:
I never used the word “trump” (screamed or otherwise) in this thread. You are lying again. Why be so dishonest? Would the truth support your argument better than lies?
And since you know less than nothing about agriculture, how can you make such a statement? Or are you just maintaining your reputation for uninformed and ill-tempered opinion?
A quote from the real enemy of dairy farmers, Sec of Ag Sonny Purdue yesterday at World Dairy Expo:
“President Donald Trump’s agriculture secretary said Tuesday he believes dairy farms can stay in business, but they may have to get bigger to do so”.
That should be Perdue.
And a response by farmers:
“Small farmers were, again, surprised by Agriculture Secretary Perdue’s callousness when he casually told them that small farms would probably not survive,” Jim Goodman, board president of the National Family Farm Coalition, told Common Dreams. “Five years of plunging farm prices, increasing bankruptcies, and climbing suicide rates were not discussed by Perdue. His message to them was basically, stop whining, your demise is inevitable.”
Sadly, the mom and pop farms ate going to be a thing in the past. When Walmart came to certain cities, several mom and pop businesses went belly up, but who survived offered good service and at a reasonable price.
Same with farms. Those who over spent on equipment and have excess expenses ate not going to survive. The frugal farmer will survive and those who over spent will go out of business.
I’ve been to the World Dairy Expo a number of times. Once to exhibit, several times to walk, all times to get a great lunch.
Mar, “certain cities?” Which city, which surviving business?
Why will no one tell me how much harm a farmer should be able to exact on his neighbors?
Nord,
I grew up on a dairy farm. I know quite a bit about farming and liberal evil coming to regulate those trying to make a living off the land.
Clearly, you do not have that compassion or perspective.
Liberals usually do not have any perspective from those they seek to pound with regulation. So I am not at all surprised by your callous attitude toward farmers.
Kevin, do you understand that neighboring farmers and “grew up on a farm” people are among those who don’t like the new strong stench or the newly-brown well water?
k:
Well, if you actually did you sure didn’t retain much of the knowledge you gained as a youth.
And another response to Perdue:
https://www.midwestfarmreport.com/2019/10/02/farmers-union-voices-disappointment-in-secretary-perdues-disconnect-with-family-farmers/?fbclid=IwAR3NymkJSbKDTE5FiZ98-KDqmy5WPPMrlfFNrEX1APKMEiHPLYwPFCLgOg4
Nord,
I retained my compassion for farmers against liberal regulatory tyrants like yourself.
I am guilty of compassion.
No, you are guilty of willful and aggressive ignorance. And you take every opportunity to cultivate that position. Ignorance can be overcome by knowledge, stupidity you will have to live with. Your choice.
So much for liberal compassion….