Boots & Sabers

The blogging will continue until morale improves...

Owen

Everything but tech support.
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0635, 26 Aug 20

People Killed in Kenosha

This was inevitable.

Two people were killed and another was injured as a gun battle broke out on the third night of protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin last night.

Footage showed gunshots ringing out amid a scuffle in the street while bystanders screamed and fled in terror, with one person shot in the arm and another one hit in the chest.

Panic broke out as another man lay in agony ‘losing a lot of blood’ after he was shot in the head, with onlookers desperately trying to stem the wound and yelling that ‘we’ve got to keep him alive’.

[…]

As the crowd gave chase, one pursuer took a flying kick at the gunman and another tried to grab his weapon before he started firing to disperse the crowd, hitting another two people.

Three people were shot in total and two of them were killed, police confirmed in the early hours of this morning – but it is not clear which victims died and the identity of the shooter is not known.

Police are hunting for a man with a long gun and fear that the shooting stemmed from a conflict between ‘self-styled militias’ defending their properties from looting and demonstrators voicing anger at the shooting of Jacob Blake.

Government has failed to control the violence for days. People have a right and duty to protect their property and themselves from violent roving mobs.

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0635, 26 August 2020

232 Comments

  1. jjf

    Why do you lack the courage to describe this situation more accurately?

    In thousands of other posts here you claimed to know the political orientation of those involved, but this time, all you can muster is the claim that the shooters were defending their property?

  2. Jason

    All I’ve seen is some supposed social media sleuthing, historically less accurate than a pathological liar, and some very sketchy video.  Oh and lots of conflicting reports – from “running, tripped, shooting” to “shot a man with a firebomb at a car dealership” to “shooting from the drivers window of a white durango”.   No one knows shit at this point.

     

    Now the facts we know, violent anarchists are promulgating this violence and the people gathering and “protesting” are allowing it to happen.   No one knows shit yet about the actual police shooting either, and that hasn’t stopped millions of dollars worth of damage to businesses and residents of Kenosha.

    BTW, since when are you concerned with Accuracy in any situation?  Turning over a new leaf?

  3. Merlin

    Yeah, it’s not like nobody saw this coming. Incredibly weak (D) political leadership is being gutted by their own kind. They issue curfews they don’t intend to enforce. They issue law enforcement stand down orders while their cities burn. Citizens are left to fend for themselves against absolute terrorism.

    Evers declined an offer of federal law enforcement help yesterday. Trump. Talked. Directly. To. Evers. Today Kenosha is asking for 1500 Guardsmen to come do the job they don’t have the guts to do themselves with their own resources. Unarmed Guardsmen as more window dressing for gutless (D) politicians? If the Guard has a way of telling Evers to piss up a rope they should do so until the script gets flipped.

  4. Kevin Scheunemann

    Jjf,

    I agree. Owen should have said “property owners left to defend against vile, vicious, out of control, leftist terrorists.”

    Better?

    I forgive Owen’s overlook here. He is such a nice guy.

    I’m sure that’s what you wanted to say, correct?

  5. jjf

    All I’ve seen is some supposed social media sleuthing, historically less accurate than a pathological liar,

    Doxxing, you mean.  Yours is accurate, but this time someone else’s is not?

  6. Jason

    >Yours is accurate, but this time someone else’s is not?

    We’ve established that I haven’t done it.  So much for me thinking you were going to start focusing on Accuracy.

  7. jjf

    Oh, that’s right, you still haven’t tried to explain your intent when you kept repeating my personal details.

    So those Other People who tracked down the shooters…  what did they discover?

  8. Jason

    Careful jjf, you really need to add “alleged” in front of shooters… if you’re an honest person.

    As to what they found, if it doesn’t matter to people the violent and criminal history of Jacob Blake, then it doesn’t matter what some autistic 4chan doxxers find…  all based on a IPhone grainy nighttime photo of a person running away.  So tell us why it’s so important to you?  Why do you feel the need to call out Owen and now me on this alleged person?  What are you going to gain from it?  Is it going to boost your argument – whatever that is?

  9. jjf

    Careful jjf, you really need to add “alleged” in front of shooters… if you’re an honest person.

    Uh…

    Now the facts we know, violent anarchists are promulgating this violence and the people gathering and “protesting” are allowing it to happen. 

    I don’t see any “alleged” there and you seem to have honestly determined quite a bit of intent without evidence.

    Why do you feel the need to call out Owen and now me on this alleged person?

    I feel totally comfortable with the idea that this person is a person.  No need to CYA here.  Also no one’s going to sue you based on your comments here.  You’re not a newspaper.  Were you as worried when you typed “violent anarchists are promulgating this violence”?

    from “running, tripped, shooting”

    So you’re suggesting the safety was on, and this happened?  Quick, consult the McCloskeys!  Where are the Responsible Gun Owners Protecting Their Property?  They were just sitting on their front porch, fondling their AR, just minding their own business, huh?

  10. Jason

    >Also no one’s going to sue you based on your comments here.  You’re not a newspaper.  

    If only you had educated Leroy of that.  He threatened just that not very long ago, and you were silent.  He was very wrong on that threat, as he was educated on, but not after some embarrassment on his part. Rather two faced of you, since you now seem to be giving free legal advice today.

    >So you’re suggesting the safety was on, and this happened?  

    I didn’t write it, I just shared a few of the many things I’ve read.  Unlike you, I try hard not to read more into what people write that what’s there.  So I won’t speculate on what you’ve asked… the only concrete fact that is not in dispute here is you’re asking dumb questions to smart people.

     

  11. jjf

    Hmm, “self-styled militias,” I wonder what that could mean.  It’s a mystery!  “Dispersing a crowd”?  And you say they haven’t caught the guy yet?  What with all his armed friends near him, they all got away you say?

  12. Le Roi du Nord

    No j, I didn’t threaten. But others here have in the past, but were confused by the difference between libel and slander.

  13. Jason

    >No j, I didn’t threaten.

    Yeah, you did.  You can’t rewrite it now.

  14. Mar

    “No j, I didn’t threaten.”
    Pathological Liar Le Roi, you threatened to sue me for slander.
    You have not done so, yet.
    So it is a threat.
    Bring it on.

  15. jjf

    You’re anonymous, Mar.  You can behave as poorly as you desire.

  16. Le Roi du Nord

    And the non-readers have spoken.

  17. Mar

    And jjf, how do you know that? Have you attempted to dox me?

  18. jjf

    I googled “mar” and it said you were Marriott International Inc.

    How do I know you’re anonymous?  What kind of questions is that?

  19. Mar

    How do I know jjf means anything?
    Though I looked it up and definition and the definition of jjf is liberal troll.

  20. Randall Flagg

    Oh, look, a white militia member is the shooter. How shocking (below is from jsonline):

    Kyle Rittenhouse, the 17-year-old charged with shooting three people — two of them fatally — during a Kenosha protest Tuesday evening, thought of himself as a militia member trying to protect life and property, according to videos, interviews and social media posts.

    Furthermore the police supported him

    In another video clip, Rittenhouse is shown with members of the group shown earlier, getting bottles of water from a law enforcement officer in an armored vehicle. He thanks them for their help, though they are clearly civilians in violation of the city’s 8 p.m. curfew.

     

  21. Randall Flagg

    Oh, look, a white militia member is the shooter brought in from out of state.  (below is from jsonline):

    Kyle Rittenhouse, the 17-year-old charged with shooting 3 people — two of them fatally — during a Kenosha protest Tuesday evening, thought of himself as a militia member trying to protect life and property, according to videos, interviews and social media posts.

    Furthermore the police supported him

    In another video clip, Rittenhouse is shown with members of the group shown earlier, getting bottles of water from a law enforcement officer in an armored vehicle. He thanks them for their help, though they are clearly civilians in violation of the city’s 8 p.m. curfew.

  22. jonnyv

    https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2020/08/26/illinois-teen-charged-homicide-kenosha-protest-case/5633334002/

    Sounds like they got the guy… or should I say kid. A 17 year old from IL. Doesn’t sound like he was there to protect his property. It sounds like he was part of a group that thought that citizens should have been deputized to help “keep the peace”.

    WTF does a 17 year old have an AR-15? Why is an IL citizen in Kenosha during this? I don’t claim to know what happened, but I can safely say that he probably shouldn’t have been on the scene with a weapon.  Kinda feel like he went in looking for trouble, and found it.

  23. Mar

    “Why is an IL citizen in Kenosha during this”
    I don’t know but I guess we can ask the same thing to BLM and Antifa who came up from Chicago as well also from Milwaukee.

  24. Pat

    This is all so very sad, disturbing, and reflective of what our country has become over the past three years.

  25. jonnyv

    FFS we have people being radicalized on both sides. The few idiots that are burning and destroying during the protests. On top of the idiots getting riled up by right-wing sites like InfoWars into thinking it is their job to protect a city?

  26. jjf

    Kinda feel like he went in looking for trouble, and found it.

    What?  You don’t say!  Found it?  Created it?

  27. Le Roi du Nord

    Hmmm, silence from the “conservatives “, nor any “denouncement” going on. How do we sane folk know they don’t support those murderous thugs? Jake and Elwood were right.

  28. jjf

    Real quiet, eh Le Roi?  Real Illinois Nazis?  I saw pics of him.  Better trigger discipline than the McCloskeys.  Nitrile gloves to better help protect his property, I guess.   In one pic, he’s pointing the AR at his foot.  There’s a lesson there somewhere.  And the sheriff says he walked right by them, but they couldn’t see him due to mental tunnel vision from the heat of battle.

  29. Mar

    It sucks because 2 people were killed. But if they were rioting and looting, oh well, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
    As far as the kid, if he is guilty, have fun in Waupun.

  30. jonnyv

    I think that the Kenosha police chief could lose his job over this part of the entire incident. Allowing an armed white person (who was the shooter) to walk past your officers after a shooting looks horrible for them. I get that it was a crazy situation but the optics on this are very bad.

  31. Mark Hoefert

    Why is an IL citizen in Kenosha during this

    Antioch is about 20 miles from Kenosha. It’s right over the WI/IL border.

    Ironically, looking at Jacob Blake (the guy shot by the cop) court cases, some of them tie to an address in Des Plaines, IL.  That is about 50 miles away.

  32. Mark Hoefert

     Allowing an armed white person (who was the shooter) to walk past your officers after a shooting looks horrible for them. I get that it was a crazy situation but the optics on this are very bad.

    There is so much speculation, but the “optics” seem to show a chaotic scene with officers rushing to attend to the victims.

     

  33. Jason

    The optics also look like self defense, especially the still living “medic” who drew a concealed pistol.

  34. Jason

    >Allowing an armed white person (who was the shooter) to walk past your officers after a shooting looks horrible for them

    Its been a tactic of the rioters to approach with their arms raised.

  35. jjf

    Its been a tactic of the rioters to approach with their arms raised.

    I would think that teens with ARs were in the minority, and that you’d consider them if shots had just been fired.

  36. Mark Hoefert

    Its been a tactic of the rioters to approach with their arms raised.

    At the link there is a picture of him walking up to the officer’s line with his arms up. So, if that is a tactic of the rioters, I don’t know how the officers can be faulted for not being able to distinguish him from a typical rioter.

    Reminds me of the Jayme Closs kidnapping in Barron, WI. Officers were converging on the scene of what sounded to be a murder in progress as per the 911 calls.  On the way to the scene, officer noted an on coming car, but it was too dark to determine make, model, color, and plate #.  Got to the scene and found 2 dead people, and it took awhile to determine that it was not a murder/suicide and that there was another household member that was not accounted for.

    In the meantime, the Facebook police tactical methods experts were chiding the Barron Sheriff’s Department for not knowing at the time that the car they met was related to the crime that they were “running hot” to.  That if they would have turned around and chased that car the girl would not have been missing for many months.

    Those “optics” did not look good either – at least in the minds of stupid people.

     

  37. jjf

    I don’t know how the officers can be faulted for not being able to distinguish him from a typical rioter.

    Maybe the AR strapped to the teen?

  38. Jason

    You don’t give out legal advice anymore jjf, WI is open carry.

  39. jjf

    Oh Jason, you’re so dramatic.

    And how many in that crowd were carrying openly?

  40. Jason

    >I would think that teens with ARs were in the minority, and that you’d consider them if shots had just been fired.

    Wow, your tactical experience must be top notch that in the dark 2 blocks away you know 17 from 18, and who was shooting and who wasn’t. Go watch some more Movies jjf, all you’re doing here is embarrassing yourself.

  41. Jason

    >And how many in that crowd were carrying openly?

    are you suggesting that the cops should have asked for identification from every person they saw with a gun last night? I don’t how else you think that question pertains to the discussion. Keep armchairing it, I love a good comedy.

  42. Jason

    Hmmm, silence from the “conservatives “, nor any “denouncement” going on. How do we sane folk know they don’t support those murderous thugs? Jake and Elwood were right.

    We finally hear from the non-thinkers.

  43. Le Roi du Nord

    Why was a 17 YO IL resident in WI, in possession of a rifle( hunter safety grad?). At that hour? Where were his parents? Come on guys, this should be easy for all your assumptions.

  44. Jason

    I wonder if anyone has identified the guy that ran up and hit Kyle in the back of the head as he ran towards the police just before he fell. Just before he was kicked, just before he was hit with a skateboard… just before a guy wearing clothing with Paramedic on it,, drew a pistol on him. There are images of this guy with his new Elbow still gripping his Second Ammendment… nothing from jjf on him though.

    This isjust one variable in this big narrative that isn’t fully public yet. It will be a long trial and if this guy gets a good lawyer, he might be getting some Sandmann style money when its over.

    Funny all the people I see, including some here, pointing out he’s from IL. So what? We still can travel freely between states, maybe that will change if Trump looses, but its a stupid thing to say.

  45. jjf

    “We appreciate you being here.”

  46. Jason

    Hey, I’m just taking your well thought out approach in the Kenosha Live discussion

    >Let the process of justice play out, Kevin.  Let them investigate.

    Surely you remember saying that?

  47. Le Roi du Nord

    Geez, the irony escapes them again. Right over their heads.

  48. jjf

    Yes, let them investigate.

    But my point from my first comment stands: where’s the usual levels of speculation and damnation?  When it’s a freelance militia teen, everyone goes silent and unaware?

    For example, no commentary on whether under-18 can open carry?  Should the deputy have asked for an ID when they were giving him some water?

  49. Randall Flagg

    The suspect who allegedly fatally shot two people and injured one last night at a protest against police brutality in Kenosha, Wisconsin stood front row at a rally for President Donald Trump in January, according to video footage. Kyle Rittenhouse, 17, posted a TikTok from the event just feet away from the podium at a January 30 rally in Des Moines, Iowa as a speaker praised the president in an introduction.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/kenosha-protest-shooting-suspect-kyle-rittenhouse-stood-front-row-at-iowa-trump-rally-in-january?ref=home

  50. Randall Flagg

    Funny all the people I see, including some here, pointing out he’s from IL. So what?

    The righties always say protestors in Wi are bused in from other states.  In this case, we have someone from another state who was called in by the righties.

    That’s “so what.”

  51. Randall Flagg

    Everybody involved was out after the curfew. I’m not going to make a great deal of it, but the point is that the curfew is in place to protect. Had persons not been out in violation of that, perhaps the situation that unfolded would not have happened. – Kenosha Sheriff

    If the curfew was such a big deal, why did your department give water to the shooter and share their appreciation rather than telling them to go away?

  52. Jason

    > Should the deputy have asked for an ID when they were giving him some water?

    If he were black and someone gmsuggesyed that, would it be racist?

    >That’s “so what.”

    Randall, Salem is a 10 minute drive… its not beyond reasonable to think maybe family or friends live in Kenosha or have a business in Kenosha.

  53. Mar

    As more and more facts come out it seems like all the protests were for nothing.
    The thug victim had a knife.
    The thug victim had a warrant for his arrest for sexual assault.
    The thug victim ignored the cop’s demands to stop.
    A taser did not stop the thug victim.
    The thug victim tried to escape from the cops.
    The thug victim was trying to into his car.
    There were at least 2 children in the car.
    The thug victim was about to put those kids in serious danger.
    The thug victim was about to kidnap the children.
    Unless politics enter into the case, the police officer will be exonerated.
    And the thugs rioted and looted for nothing.
    2 people are dead but that didn’t need to happen.
    Baseball and basketball could have played their games, but quite frankly, who cares.
    All because the thug victim behaved like a thug.

  54. jonnyv

    Mar. Having a knife in your car isn’t illegal. Was he reaching for it? Was it in plain sight to the police, or was it discovered after the fact? These things I don’t know yet.

    The police failed on a few levels. He never should have been allowed to get to his car if he was that much of a threat.

    He also should have listened to police. But none of those things are deserving of being shot 7 times. Who cares if he had a warrant. Was that known at the time? Or is it just a good talking point on a reason why the cop can shoot him.

    And where do you get that he was going to “kidnap” the children? From my understanding those are his kids. Unless he was stealing the car from the mother, I don’t think you can say he was kidnapping them.

  55. Le Roi du Nord

    RF:

    You caught it. Bravo!

  56. Jason

    >Yes, let them investigate

    Following this thought, George Floyd’s toxicology report was quietly released yesterday. Ouch.

  57. Mar

    Jonny, you have some good points.
    But as far as the kids are concerned, do you want the cops to go on a high speed chase with them in the car. That certainly a possibility.
    You are the cop, do you want to take that chance?

  58. Jason

    >Baseball and basketball could have played their games, but quite frankly, who cares.

    The fact they played after Cannon Hinnant was executed shows some level of bias, no?

  59. dad29

    Aha!!

    Now I know why Jiffy doesn’t believe in Natural Law.

    It’s because Jiffy is SUPER-Natural.  Omniscient, and all-seeing.  If only he were a cop so he could apply those super-powers to any situation at any time of the day or night!!

  60. dad29

    But none of those things are deserving of being shot 7 times.

    And you know that because………………………..?

    You mean that “in MY estimation, none of these……”  Good.  You should go right ahead and write police policy/procedure manuals and offer them for sale.  You’d probably sell one or two, if Jiffy kicks in for one.

  61. jonnyv

    No Dad. I was pretty clear. None of the things I described deserve being shot in the back 7 times. Now, if he was doing something OTHER than what I claimed, then that is fine. But the things I said that were not deserving of being shot in the back…
    1. Disobeying an officer

    2. Just having a knife in the car.

    From the video I saw, he was moving very slowly into the car. He wasn’t making any quick movements. EVEN IF he was reaching for that knife (we don’t know) IMO that doesn’t even deserve to be shot in the back. The cop could have backed off. I have not heard audio from 7 second video, so I can’t say what was being said by either party.

    My guess is that the cop was frustrated at the man for resisting earlier and not currently listening. Tempers were high, and the cop lost his cool when he saw the knife in the car.

  62. Mar

    Actually, Jonny, there is a picture of him holding a knife, plus with the cops yelling him to put down the knife pretty much does say he was carrying a knife.
    My guess the cop was protecting the kids in the car.

  63. Mar

    Interesting that the kid has a fund page
    (Fundly?) And has collected over $73,000 so far. That can pay for a decent lawyer.

  64. Mar

    Aww, one of these peaceful protestors who bit the dust is a convicted violent felon along with several misdemeanor convictions.
    Sounds like the dead guy isn’t that innocent and the world is better off without him in it.

  65. Mar

    And as Le Roi would say, it’s the protestor own damn fault.

  66. Jason

    The “protester” that was shot in the arm, the one that was wearing “Paramedic” on his hat and shirt, the one that was armed and photographed with his arm wound and his Second Amendment gripped in that hand… he is from West Allis…  further away from Kenosha than Antioch.  jjf, Leroy, Randall, JohnnyV – any condemnation about that little fact?

    >Why is an IL citizen in Kenosha during this

    >Why was a 17 YO IL resident in WI

    Here’s my thoughts today… The kid was stupid for being there in that mess.   The two dead and 1 injured were equally stupid for being there in that mess.  These “protests” that start after darkness falls, are stupid, pointless, and just an excuse to cause damage and terrorize people.

    Good day.

  67. Le Roi du Nord

    No mar, I never said that. You are lying again.

    FYI: WI doesn’t have the death penalty, even for violent felons. And WI doesn’t allow 17 year olds to shoot folks because of the past record of the victim. Were you as smart as you claim you would know that.

  68. jjf

    Dad29, what are you so obliquely referring to (this time)?

    Where’s all the talk about thugs and goblins?

    As for IDing the teen, this morning I see in the paper he was saying out loud “I just killed someone” as he walked away, and yet he managed to flee.

    Yes, Randall, “there was a bus full of protesters from out of state” is a common criticism, isn’t it?

    The kid was stupid for being there in that mess.

    What, Jason?  Why?  Doesn’t a 17-year-old have a right to open carry anything he wants if he comes to WI, and leave the safety off if he decides?  If he was “stupid,” what’s your assessment of the people who inspired him to ride to Kenosha?  Also stupid?

    Now we’re going to measure the distance someone travels, and have a rule that 25 miles is too much but 23 is OK?  We could call it the “You Ain’t From Around Here Rule.”

    And Mar plays the post-game blame-game.  Oh, he was no angel, so…  so he’s deserved a shootin’?

  69. Mike

    The knife wasn’t in the car, he had a curved blade knife in his left hand as he was walking at the front of the car. There are also previous pics of him with a knife that had a finger loop clipped to his vest. A Kerambit fits the description perfectly

    As to the shooting, what matters is the reasons and dynamics of each shoot.

    The first shooting was of a guy that had repeatedly been actively aggressive toward the group of people protecting property. Kyle was trying to run from him as the guy threw a bag containing a bottle at him. It looked like the guy had him boxed in between cars when he was shot.

    The 2nd guy killed had just hit Kyle in the head/neck area with a long board. This is deadly force and justifies that shooting.

    3rd guy shot had a pistol in his hand and was advancing on Kyle. Hands up don’t shoot doesn’t work when you are advancing with a weapon.

    This is also the same DA that prosecuted child sex trafficing and rape victim Chrystul Kizer, so he apparently doesn’t believe in self defense.

  70. Randall Flagg

    Police had a chance to stop him before any of this happened by enforcing the curfew. It is also likely he was not legally able to be carrying (under 18, not hunting), so the police could have checked that as well and arrested him/taken his gun.

    Instead they thanked him and gave him water.

     

  71. Randall Flagg

      jjf, Leroy, Randall, JohnnyV – any condemnation about that little fact?

    Nope, he was from in-state.  Kyle was not.  My statement about people coming from out of state to cause trouble still stands.

  72. Jason

    >The 2nd guy killed had just hit Kyle in the head/neck area with a long board. This is deadly force and justifies that shooting.

    There is also video footage of Kyle getting hit in the back of the head by a protestor, just before he fell down and then was hit with a skateboard.

    So he was fleeing toward the police, was hit in the head, continued to run, tripped or possibly fell from the blow to the head, was hit, was hit with a skateboard, gun was grabbed by skateboard dude, gun was fired, “paramedic guy” (who was caught on film running after Kyle while reaching in wasteband of shorts at 6 o’clock CCW postion) froze, then came on to attack, was shot in arm, ran away screaming “MEDIC” like he’s in Call of Duty.

  73. Jason

    >Police had a chance to stop him before any of this happened by enforcing the curfew.

    Police had a chance to stop everything by enforcing the curfew.  Him, Dead Protester 1, Dead Protester 2, Fake Medic Protester 3, everyone there.

  74. Jason

    >Nope, he was from in-state.  Kyle was not.  My statement about people coming from out of state to cause trouble still stands.

    So it’s a arbitrary government drawn line that’s the limit?  If a bus full of people came from Superior WI @ 428 Miles Away, that’s ok in your book, but Antioch IL @ 19 Miles Away is not.   So much for liberals supporting open borders.   That’s really your stance on this?  Really?

  75. Jason

    >If he was “stupid,” what’s your assessment of the people who inspired him to ride to Kenosha?  Also stupid?

    Within their constitutional rights, and I understand the desire to protect family and friends and property and constitutional rights when Evers and local leaders would not.  But yes, stupid.  My opinion is that property can be replaced, and should not be protected by deadly force unless you’re on it and cannot retreat.

    With that said, I feel the same about the protesters that come out when the sun sets.  Within their constitutional rights unless there is a curfew (which there was), but stupid.  Ask yourself why these protests are happening at night?  Not during the day?

  76. Randall Flagg

    Police had a chance to stop everything by enforcing the curfew.  Him, Dead Protester 1, Dead Protester 2, Fake Medic Protester 3, everyone there.

    Absolutley

    So it’s a arbitrary government drawn line that’s the limit?

    That line was defined by Wisconsin conservatives when they complained people from out of state protesting in Wisconsin should not be in Wisconsin protesting.  If you have a problem with that line, take it up with those that defined it.

     

  77. Jason

    Ok, point them out to me Randall.   Remember the late night protesters are in fact the proximate cause for all of this.  Also remember that chasing someone who is holding a gun is never a smart thing…

  78. Merlin

    Both Josh Kaul and Michael Graveley were surprisingly clear in their press briefing last night that emotion will play no part in Kaul’s investigation of Blake’s shooting or Graveley’s decision of whether the facts gathered warrant prosecution of the officer involved. Graveley went so far as to list the hot social issues at play, then dismissed them as not a responsibility within his job description. Those subjects were left to local NAACP and Urban League representatives.

    All in all, a sterling performance by both Kaul and Graveley. Kaul laid out just enough known facts to ensure citizen confidence in the investigative process and Graveley publicly lowered expectations that his decision making process would place social justice advocacy above the legal process.

    Quite unlike the Evers and Barnes circus.

  79. Merlin

    So far just CNN’s Keith Boykins.

  80. jjf

    So we can accurately determine what sort of knife he might’ve had and where it was, and who was acting aggressively and who wasn’t, but we can’t admit the shooter was a self-styled right-wing militia teen?  All we can do is sigh and say “this was inevitable.”

  81. Mar

    jjf says “As for IDing the teen, this morning I see in the paper he was saying out loud “I just killed someone” as he walked away, and yet he managed to flee.”
    This from the same moron who wanted Rayshard Brooks, the guy killed by police in Atlanta, be allowed to just walk away and maybe arrested later.
    Hypocrisy much, jjf?

  82. Mar

    “No mar, I never said that. You are lying again.”
    Umm, yeah you did.
    You blamed people for overdosing, committing suicide and not going to the doctor, saying it’s their own fault because they were not tough enough to solve their problems.
    And this protestor could have avoided his death by not going to rioting and looting and did not participate in the rioting and looting.
    But you just cannot help yourself when it comes to lying, can you?

  83. Merlin

    Boykins’ wild extrapolation of  Carlson’s comment is a futile attempt to rationalize chaos. A chaos perpetuated by the far left and silently condoned, so far, by the political party that proudly represents them.

    Carlson’s comment was about the circumstances created when law enforcement steps aside and allows chaos to rule the streets. Nothing more. Further attempts by lefties to rationalize what they have wrought are likely to fall just as flat as Boykins’ exaggerations.

    Y’all let that genie out of the bottle and it’s going to be an absolute bitch to put back.

  84. jjf

    Mar, I don’t see the parallels in the two cases.

    And if Kyle had some priors, we’d be able to say “he’s no angel” and throw the book at him, right?

  85. Mar

    “And if Kyle had some priors, we’d be able to say “he’s no angel” and throw the book at him, right?”
    Even if he had no priors, if he is found guilty, throw the book at him.
    Based on the videos I have seen, I am not sure the first shooting was justified. The second shooting in the street clearly was a case of self defense.

  86. Le Roi du Nord

    No mar, I didn’t.

  87. Mar

    “No mar, I didn’t.”
    You didn’t what, Le Roi?
    Didn’t poop this morning?
    Didn’t take your medicine?
    Didn’t drink your famous beer yet?
    Didn’t watch CNN to get your talking points?

  88. jjf

    Mar, if the first shooting wasn’t justified, how does the law consider the subsequent shooting?

  89. Mar

    If you watch the video of the 2nd shooting, you would not have asked such a silly question.
    As I said, I don’t about the first shooting but the 2nd shooting scene, the kid was in serious physical danger by armed rioters.

  90. jjf

    I’m trying to understand your words, Mar.  So if he wasn’t justified the first time he shot, wasn’t he the danger to the people around him, and wouldn’t they have the option to take him down?

  91. Mar

    jjf, I did not say he wasn’t justified in the first shooting. He may or may not have been.
    Sure they can try and take down an armed shooter but they have to accept the consequences of their actions, like being killed.

  92. Mar

    Aww, the 2nd dead guy is also a violent criminal.
    You would think BLM and Antifa would vet their thugs better.

  93. Le Roi du Nord

    Gee mar, you even forgot what you just claimed. Sad.

  94. Mar

    Looks like Le Roi is having another party in his head and no one is invited.

  95. Pat

    Kyle Rittenhouse’s record.

    In 2018, he has a charge for disobeying officers.

    2016
    Case Number: 2016CM000410
    Case Type: MISDEMEANOR
    Classification: MISDEMEANOR CLASS A
    Counts: 1
    Crime Type: MISDEMEANOR
    Degree Of Offense: MISD. A
    Crime County: ROCK
    Offense Code: 941.20(1)(B)
    Offense Date: 01/29/2016
    Offense Description: OPERATE FIREARM WHILE INTOXICATED
    Charges Filed Date: 03/01/2016
    County: ROCK
    Plea: NOT GUILTY
    Disposition: CHARGE DISMISSED BUT READ IN
    Disposition Date: 10/04/2016
    Status: CLOSED

    DISORDERLY CONDUCT
    2016
    Case Number: 2016CM000410
    Case Type: MISDEMEANOR
    Classification: MISDEMEANOR CLASS B
    Counts: 1
    Crime Type: MISDEMEANOR
    Degree Of Offense: MISD. B
    Crime County: ROCK
    Offense Code: 947.01(1)
    Offense Date: 01/29/2016
    Offense Description: DISORDERLY CONDUCT
    Charges Filed Date: 03/01/2016
    County: ROCK
    Plea: NO CONTEST
    Disposition: GUILTY DUE TO NO CONTEST PLEA
    Disposition Date: 10/04/2016
    Status: CLOSED

    POSSESSION OF THC
    2016
    Case Number: 2016CM000410
    Case Type: MISDEMEANOR
    Classification: MISDEMEANOR
    Counts: 1
    Crime Type: MISDEMEANOR
    Degree Of Offense: MISD. U
    Crime County: ROCK
    Offense Code: 961.41(3G)(E)
    Offense Date: 01/29/2016
    Offense Description: POSSESSION OF THC
    Charges Filed Date: 03/01/2016
    County: ROCK
    Plea: NOT GUILTY
    Disposition: CHARGE DISMISSED BUT READ IN
    Disposition Date: 10/04/2016
    Status: CLOSED

    POSSESS DRUG PARAPHERNALIA
    2016
    Case Number: 2016CM000410
    Case Type: MISDEMEANOR
    Classification: MISDEMEANOR
    Counts: 1
    Crime Type: MISDEMEANOR
    Degree Of Offense: MISD. U
    Crime County: ROCK
    Offense Code: 961.573(1)
    Offense Date: 01/29/2016
    Offense Description: POSSESS DRUG PARAPHERNALIA
    Charges Filed Date: 03/01/2016
    County: ROCK
    Plea: NOT GUILTY
    Disposition: CHARGE DISMISSED BUT READ IN
    Disposition Date: 10/04/2016
    Status: CLOSED

    FAILURE TO OBEY TRAFFIC OFFICE…
    2018
    Case Number: 2018TR011432
    Classification: FORFEITURE U
    Counts: 1
    Offense Code: 346.04(2)
    Offense Date: 08/09/2018
    Offense Description: FAILURE TO OBEY TRAFFIC OFFICER/SIGNAL
    Charges Filed Date: 08/13/2018
    Plea: NO CONTEST
    Disposition: GUILTY DUE TO NO CONTEST PLEA

  96. Kevin Scheunemann

    Pat,

    Now, can you post Mr. Blakes history of women beating and sexual assault?

     

  97. Merlin

    From the looks of the newest videos involving Rittenhouse, Kaul and Graveley will soon be holding yet another press conference to tamp down expectations. Can’t charge dead thugs for shooting first. Tough to convince a jury to convict a live thug for accurate defensive return fire. What a mess.

  98. Randall Flagg

    Ok, point them out to me Randall.

    Research the Act 10 protest and Republicans comments on them.

    Remember the late night protesters are in fact the proximate cause for all of this.  Also remember that chasing someone who is holding a gun is never a smart thing…

    Police had a chance to stop this by enforcing the curfew or enforcing Wisconsin gun laws.  They chose to do neither.

  99. Randall Flagg

    Now, can you post Mr. Blakes history of women beating and sexual assault?

    Why should pat do that?  It’s all over the internet.  The fact that the same posters who posted Blake history have not posted Kyle’s shows their double standard.

  100. Randall Flagg

    Merlin:

    He was (from my understanding) not legally carrying the rifle (under 18, not hunting).  That will likely play into this as well.

  101. Randall Flagg

    Given his history, I wonder if he was drunk or high when he shot?

  102. Randall Flagg

    Government has failed to control the violence for days.

    I agree with Owen here.  State and local authorities let this go on too long.  Shame on Tony Evers and David Beth especially.

  103. Randall Flagg

    And police chief Dan Miskinis

  104. Pat

    Punk kid was a thug with a gun. He’s no better than those who riot. It’s a shame some people are holding him up as a patriot. He’s your run of the mill criminal.

  105. Kevin Scheunemann

    Pat,

    You should also post the criminal history of the “victims”.   1 is a convicted pedophile and other is a chronic woman abuser as well.

    Just to be fair.

    Kyle is the “saint” out of this hornets nest of leftist terrorists.

     

  106. Randall Flagg

    “Let me tell you something. Nobody drives into a city with guns because they love someone else’s business that much. That’s some bullshit. No one has ever thought, ‘Oh, it’s my solemn duty to pick up a rifle and protect that T.J. Maxx.’ They do it because they’re hoping to shoot someone.”

    “And while what happened with those shootings last night is tragic, what happened afterwards was illuminating. It really made me wonder why some people get shot seven times in the back, while other people are treated like human beings and reasoned with and taken into custody with no bullets in their bodies.”

    “How come Jacob Blake was seen as a deadly threat for a theoretical gun that he might have and might try to commit a crime with, but this gunman who was armed and had already shot people—who had shown that he was a threat—was arrested the next day, given full due process of the law and generally treated like a human being whose life matters?”

    “How did Dylann Roof shoot up a church, James Holmes shoot up a movie theater and both live to tell about it? Why is it that the police decide that some threats must be extinguished immediately while other threats get the privilege of being diffused?”

    “The answer is that the gun doesn’t matter as much as who is holding the gun. Because to some people, Black skin is the most threatening weapon of all”

    — Trevor Noah

  107. Pat

    “Kyle is the “saint” out of this hornets nest of leftist terrorists.”

    Kevin, you mean he was the “saint” out of this hornets nest. He surpassed all of them by being a cold blooded killer. Now he’s the most evil of the bunch. Awful. Just awful.

    Will you join me in denouncing Kyle Rittenhouse for his breaking of one of the major commandments.

  108. jjf

    Pat – The right Kyle has a traffic ticket on 8/19.  The rest on CCAP in Rock County aren’t the same Kyle.

    So just to steal Mar’s thunder, stop being a lying liar who lies.  :-)

  109. Pat

    My apologies to everyone here. And mostly to Kyle for bearing false witness.

  110. Mar

    Thank you jjf.

  111. Mark Hoefert

    Wonder if he beat the victim in the following case with his skateboard?

    “Saint” Anthony “the gentle hippie” Huber.

    2018KN001983

    Defendant date of birth
    08-21-1994

    Address
    4777 88th Ave, KCDC, Kenosha, WI 53144

    KCDC – Kenosha County Detention Center.

    1
    940.19(1)
    Battery
    Misd. A
    Dismissed on Prosecutor’s Motion

    Modifier:
    939.62(1)(a)
    Repeater

    Modifier:
    968.075(1)(a)
    Domestic Abuse

    2
    947.01(1)
    Disorderly Conduct
    Misd. B
    Guilty Due to Guilty Plea

    Modifier:
    968.075(1)(a)
    Domestic Abuse

    Modifier:
    939.62(1)(a)
    Repeater

  112. Mark Hoefert

    Joseph “Shoot me, n……” Rosenbaum. The first guy to get shot.
    Kenosha County Case Number 2020CM000836 State of Wisconsin vs. Joseph Don Rosenbaum

    1
    940.19(1)
    Battery
    Misd. A

    Modifier:
    968.075(1)(a)
    Domestic Abuse

    2
    947.01(1)
    Disorderly Conduct
    Misd. B

    Modifier:
    968.075(1)(a)
    Domestic Abuse

  113. dad29

    Video is now out showing that the first shooting happened after an Antifa/BLM demonstrator fired a pistol into the air behind Jacob.  2 rounds.  Then the demonstrator chased Jacob and wound up dead behind a car.

    Second/third shoots were in self-defense when he was on the ground.

    L. Lin Wood is coming in to sue for defamation (etc.) and also has a criminal defense team assembled for Jacob.

    So.  We have two instances of self-defense and several instances of slander/defamation/causation of great stress (whatever.)  It’s about damn time that patriots get taken care of correctly.

    Stuff it, Jiffy.

  114. Kevin Scheunemann

    pat,

    Why didn’t you post their criminal records?

    Interesting. Trying to keep the pedophiles and woman abusers under the table for the leftist narrative?

  115. Mark Hoefert

    @ Dad29: Video is now out showing that the first shooting happened after an Antifa/BLM demonstrator fired a pistol into the air behind Jacob.

    In other forums there is discussion about the guy’s shot in the head not having an exit wound.  That if shot with the young guy’s gun, the caliber would have resulted in a significant amount of his head disappearing.  Certainly did a number on the guy’s arm.

    I don’t know much about guns. Is that plausible?

     

     

  116. Merlin

    “The answer is that the gun doesn’t matter as much as who is holding the gun. Because to some people, Black skin is the most threatening weapon of all”

    — Trevor Noah

    Wrong answer, Trevor. Try again with a bit of intellectual honesty.

    Behavior in the presence of law enforcement is the primary determinant of outcome. You go stupid, they go hard. Stupid doesn’t know color, but there is a solution for every level of stupid. Maximum stupidity can prove fatal.

  117. Mike

    Pat has the wrong record. That Kyle is a 29 year old man in rock county.

  118. Kevin Scheunemann

    Mike,

    Why am I not surprised.

    Yet pat refuses to post police records of the leftist terrorists attacking the kid.

    Awful. Just awful.

  119. dad29

    behind Jacob

    My post at 7:26 refers to “Jacob” should be “Kyle” both times.

    As to “no exit wound”……..very interesting.  We assume that Kyle was using an AR chambered in .223 which would definitely put a hole through-and-through.

    Only caliber which usually does not exit the dome is .22LR (favored by Mossad assassins) which could be from a handgun or a rifle.

    If what you say turns out to be certified by the coroner, it’s likely that the Antifa/BLM goblin was shot by someone NOT Kyle, perhaps the pistolier who fired 2 into the air earlier.

    That would give us the answer to “How stupid is Tony Evers, really??” and we would be able to confirm <chipmunk.

  120. dad29

    ADD:  It’s also possible that Kyle’s AR was chambered in .22LR.  Rare, but not impossible at all.

    Still lots of facts that KPD is hiding.

  121. Le Roi du Nord

    There are lookalike ARs in .22LR. A friend had one, piece of junk. But they are out there.

  122. MjM

    Randy Flags quotes a dickhead “— Trevor Noah”

    “Let me tell you something. Nobody drives into a city with guns because they love someone else’s business that much.” – dickhead Trevor Noah

    https://nypost.com/2020/08/26/suspected-kenosha-gunman-kyle-rittenhouse-spotted-cleaning-graffiti/

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/1298564220565561346?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1298564220565561346%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fchicago.suntimes.com%2F2020%2F8%2F26%2F21402877%2Fkyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooting-arrest-antioch-jacob-blake

    “How did Dylann Roof shoot up a church, James Holmes shoot up a movie theater and both live to tell about it? ” – dickhead Trevor Noah

    “At least five Shelby police officers, guns drawn, surrounded the black Hyundai sedan that had pulled off the highway on Thursday morning. The skinny, blond driver, though, lowered his window and calmly handed over his driver’s license. “I’m Dylann Roof,” he said. “ – Charlotte Observer, 7/19/2015

    “Aurora police officer Jason Oviatt arrested Holmes a few minutes later, after finding him outside, standing with his hands on top of his car. Oviatt said Holmes was “completely compliant” when told to surrender. ” – USA Today, 1/8/2013

    The lesson here, Randy, is don’t be a dickhead.

  123. Mar

    Gee, ever since the 2 thugs who were killed in Kenosha, it’s been relatively quiet there.
    A 17 year old was able to stop the rioting and looting.
    I bet that might work in Portland.

  124. Pat

    Kevin,

    The records have already been posted.

    Do you denounce Kyle Rittenhouse‘s evil behavior?

  125. Kevin Scheunemann

    Pat,

    Are you going to apologize for your false witness on Kyle’s court record first?

  126. Pat

    Kevin,

    I immediately apologized once jjf brought it to my attention. You must of missed it.

    Do you denounce Kyle Rittenhouse‘s evil behavior?

  127. Kevin Scheunemann

    Pat,

    He was savagely attacked and was, at a minimum, being beaten by a liberal terrorist with a skate board. I am initially siding with self defense from liberal terrorists.

    We will see facts at trial, if it even gets there, but I would acquit if on that jury.

    Now, let’s talk about disgusting, long, criminal records of his attackers? Do thugs ever get their reward for continuing their thuggishness? Or should they be shielded from consequence for their thug brhavior?

  128. Pat

    Kevin,

    The people had every right to attempt to take down that alt right terrorist for shooting someone in the head. The alt right terrorist was a danger to everyone.

  129. Jason

    >The alt right terrorist was a danger to everyone.

    Quite the statement Pat… if i were an asshole like John Foust I’d tell you to stop being so dramatic. How about this, there is a lot of video evidence showing your statement wrong. Out of the dozens or hundreds of people in that situation the only people in danger had attacked him.

    BTW, alt left terrorist Gaige Paul Grosskruetz is a convicted felon from West Allis, brandishing a firearm, and is now on record stating he regrets not killing Kyle.

  130. Pat

    Jason,

    So what.

  131. jjf

    Stuff it, Jiffy.

    What has agitated you now, Dad29?  What did the fly do to make you so un-civil?

    You can also explain why the shooter was able to walk past three police vehicles with his hands in the air?

    Why he said out loud “I just killed somebody” and that other protesters continued to trail him saying “there’s the guy who did it” and the cops did nothing?

    If shots just rang out, sure, aid the fallen, but wouldn’t you also look for people with a gun and consider whether they were the one who shot?

  132. Randall Flagg

    Pat,

    Are you going to apologize for your false witness on Kyle’s court record first?

    And with this post, Kevin admits he does not read other posts before posting himself.  Will Kevin denounce himself for doing so?

  133. Randall Flagg

    You can also explain why the shooter was able to walk past three police vehicles with his hands in the air?

    While dad29 is doing that, he can also explain why the shooter was able to stand in front of cops illegally carrying a rifle, and the cops gave him water and told him good job instead of arresting him.

  134. jjf

    Jason, what is your intent in not calling me “jjf” here?

  135. Jason

    >So what.

    There you go Pat, being the adult again.

  136. Jason

    >Jason, what is your intent in not calling me “jjf” here?

     

    Drama, of course.

  137. Mar

    “Do you denounce Kyle Rittenhouse‘s evil behavior?”
    As more facts have come out, no.
    Pat, do you denounce the thugs, rioters and liberals who decided to attack the kid and 3 of them got what they deserved?

  138. Pat

    Mar,

    No.

  139. Mar

    “You can also explain why the shooter was able to walk past three police vehicles with his hands in the air?”
    As you said, the first priority is to aid the victims. Because of rioting and looting, the cops had to go in as a massive team and the cops had limited number of people who could respond immediately.
    “the shooter was able to stand in front of cops illegally carrying a rifle, and the cops gave him water and told him good job instead of arresting him.”
    Because at the time, he wasn’t bothering anyone.
    And the cops had better things to do, like protecting themselves and others instead of taking an officer or 2 off the street to do the arrest, file the paperwork and then transport to jail or wait for his parents to come and get him.
    Why not ask why not arrest all peaceful protestors, looters and rioters then?

  140. Jason

    Seems like suddenly the liberals saying “Why didn’t they stop a 17 year old illegally carrying a gun” are advocating for “Stop and Frisk”.   Either that or they really think a police officer is going to be able to identify a 17 year old from an 18 year old, in the dark, during a riot, while the 17 year old is wearing a mask.

     

    Nonthinking armchair quarterbacks watch too many muvees.

  141. Jason

    Pat,

    So what.

  142. Pat

    Jason,

    I don’t know. What?

  143. Mar

    I guess Pat has nothing new to add.

  144. Pat

    Do you, Mar?

  145. Mar

    Learn to read Pat.

  146. Pat

    I read what you said, Mar. You said peaceful protesters should be arrested. And you’d like what sort of response to that?

  147. Mar

    Lying Pat, again, learn to read.
    Learn to comprehend reading.
    It might help you later on.

  148. jjf

    Jason, that’s what the cops did with Tamir Rice, right?

  149. Pat

    “Why not ask why not arrest all peaceful protestors, looters and rioters then?“

  150. Mar

    Again, learn to read and comprehend Lying Pat.
    I guess you have joined the Troll team of jjf, Le Roi, and Randall. One more troll and you have a basketball team.

  151. Le Roi du Nord

    Pat:

    You have the quote correct, mar just forgot what he said earlier.  That is getting to be the new normal for him.

  152. Jason

    >Jason, that’s what the cops did with Tamir Rice, right?

    Ok, I know you’re trolling now, but go ahead and tell us how you linked the two situations John.

  153. jjf

    Jason, you’re the one who dramatically pivoted to “stop and frisk,” not me.  The cops had time to talk to him calmly, they didn’t think to ask for ID for proof of age?

  154. Mar

    Pathological Liar Le Roi and Lying Pat: Combination of 5 brain cells and losing them quickly.
    I guess when you cannot read an entire paragraph, you are beyond help.

  155. Pat

    Mar,

    You’d make more sense if you didn’t post things when your drunk. Is that why you never could hold a job?

  156. Randall Flagg

    Pat:

    Isn’t it interesting Jason, Dad29 and others criticize you, me and jjf while letting Mar  run free.  Their silence (and failure to denounce him) speaks volumes.

    Always amazes me what people will tolerate in their own.

  157. Jason

    >Jason, you’re the one who dramatically pivoted to “stop and frisk,” not me.

    I don’t always pivot but when I do I add some drama to it.   Sorry, you’re the one who thinks every cop in America can look at a person in the dark, during a riot, while that person is wearing a government mandated mask; and determine that they’re not 18, they’re only 17.   My counter is that the only way you could think that is if you want cops to be able to just arbitrarily stop people and ask for their papers.  Sorry that you couldn’t comprehend that, Little John.

    >The cops had time to talk to him calmly, they didn’t think to ask for ID for proof of age?

    Great, you have introduced a second incident where cops and a male suspect, and I’m supposed to know which one you’re talking about.   More of that drama music is playing in the background.  Either that or your mom is upstairs watching Matlock again.

     

  158. Jason

    >Isn’t it interesting Jason, Dad29 and others criticize you, me and jjf while letting Mar  run free.  Their silence (and failure to denounce him) speaks volumes.

    Its really funny how jjf will run around and try to prop up Leroy when he says something really stupid.

     

    I find it interesting that someone will search Wisconsin Circuit Court access for an IL resident and not realize the mistake.

  159. Jason

    Isn’t it interesting that these are the “peaceful protesters” coming out of their parents basements when the sun sets.  It’s their god given right to protest, they say.

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he–dO-csx4

  160. jjf

    Jason, the report came in about shots fired and people down, and police radios heard “What’s the location? … Northwest running… it’s gonna be a male, possibly white, green shirt and long rifle” and later “The shooting…male, white, with a rifle. Running, he was running southbound, turned around and fired into the crowd.”

    The “second incident” was when the cops talked to the self-styled militia members including the shooter and gave them water and thanked them for their presence.

  161. Jason

    >The “second incident” was when the cops talked to the self-styled militia members including the shooter and gave them water and thanked them for their presence.

    You are so very wrong in your narrative.  If you think you’re not, share the video.

  162. Merlin

    An Illinois judge has granted a delay in Rittenhouse’s extradition hearing until at least September 25th in order to obtain private legal counsel. Rittenhouse will remain in an Illinois juvenile detention center until then.

    I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if this kid ends up with an All-Star lineup of legal heavies on his defense team. Pro bono. Kenosha is going to get its very own OJ-style legal circus.

    I wonder if Michael Graveley wishes he had retired a month ago.

  163. jjf

    Jason, it’s about 1:20 here.  Certainly you’ve seen it before, right?

  164. Jason

    Ah, I understand, I thought you were imply that the cops handed him a bottle of water AFTER the second shooting.

    So yeah, explain to us all how the cops in the water bottle situation have some flashlight or goggles that pop up with “ALERT 17 YEAR OLD OUT OF STATE BOY WITH LONG GUN!”   Watch some more Robocop.

  165. Jason

    >I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if this kid ends up with an All-Star lineup of legal heavies on his defense team. Pro bono. Kenosha is going to get its very own OJ-style legal circus.

    Undoubtedly some of the Nick Sandmann team will be on it.

  166. jjf

    Jason, I think you’re catching on.  You’re the one who assumed that the “thank you” encounter happened after the shooting.

  167. Jason

    >Undoubtedly some of the Nick Sandmann team will be on it.

    Just read that Lin Wood is on it.

  168. Jason

    >You’re the one who assumed that the “thank you” encounter happened after the shooting.

    You’re the one who wrote shit without context about what you’re responding about.

     

    Oh, and silly you, you didn’t address this.

    >So yeah, explain to us all how the cops in the water bottle situation have some flashlight or goggles that pop up with “ALERT 17 YEAR OLD OUT OF STATE BOY WITH LONG GUN!”   Watch some more Robocop.

    If you don’t think that, then you think it’s ok for cops to stop and ask people for papers while doing nothing wrong.  It’s one or the other bud, there’s no reasonable expectation that those cops in their armored vehicle could identify Kyle as a 17 year old out of state resident illegally carrying a long gun.  Which by the way is a misdemeanor in Wisconsin, and I’ll bet they had a sit-rep meeting prior to the sun setting that said “Let small misdemeanors go, focus on people sucker punching 75 year old men and lighting buildings and cars on fire – like they did last night”.   Right?   Common sense to the thinkers, no?

  169. Randall Flagg

    If you don’t think that, then you think it’s ok for cops to stop and ask people for papers while doing nothing wrong.

    But that doesn’t describe Kyle.  He was doing something wrong.

  170. Randall Flagg

    and I’ll bet they had a sit-rep meeting prior to the sun setting that said “Let small misdemeanors go, focus on people sucker punching 75 year old men and lighting buildings and cars on fire – like they did last night”.   Right?   Common sense to the thinkers, no?

    The meeting was more like “make sure you let all the righties do whatever they want.  Don’t forget we are in league with them.  Give them water and tell them they are doing a good job.”

  171. Jason

    >“make sure you let all the righties do whatever they want.  Don’t forget we are in league with them.  Give them water and tell them they are doing a good job.”

    Child.

  172. Jason

    >But that doesn’t describe Kyle.  He was doing something wrong.

    Again, any reasonable person would not know that, without physically requesting identification from him.  Try to grasp that, it’s key to your failing accusation.

  173. jjf

    Jason, you watched the video clip of Kyle walking away from the shooting, as the three police vehicles enter the area and go right past him?  No one’s talking about AR goggles but you.  Just radio audio.

  174. Jason

    >No one’s talking about AR goggles but you.  Just radio audio.

    No one is talking about radio audio, just you.  Your JS Online link has many gaps and missing timestamps.   And regardless of all that, you were here a few weeks ago saying about another incident that a drunk guy passed out in a drive through should have been allowed to leave so they could just arrest him later.  In the bigger scheme of things, Kyle was arrested the next day, is in custody, and so far no additional incidents have been linked to him.   So what exactly are you arguing, because you’re twisting around more than usual.

  175. Mar

    I like how rent-a-cop wannabes just know all things about being under pressure, how emergency scenes work and that they are smarter than the cops in stressful situations.
    I bet the Milwaukee police department would love to have you share your knowledge about your knowledge of police work.
    Better yet, why don’t sign up to be a cop.

  176. Jason

    >I like how rent-a-cop wannabes just know all things about being under pressure, how emergency scenes work and that they are smarter than the cops in stressful situations.

     

    Randall, is this one ok or should I police it?  Irony in that, I think ;)

  177. Jason

    I’ll just leave this here… it’s very apropos to everything Kenosha and failed leadership.

    https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/wisconsin-police-chiefs-to-evers-barnes-stop-making-statements-about-jacob-blake-until-facts-are-known

    >”Previous remarks and statements made by each of you are premature, judgmental, inflammatory and only add to the anger and divisiveness of an already dangerous situation.”
    >”Continued remarks like those already made by each of you have also put the lives of Law Enforcement Officers, National Guardsman and the public at risk,” the letter reads.
     

    So he gets schooled a few times by the Supreme Court, and now by Police Chiefs around the State.  Short time left for him.

  178. Le Roi du Nord

    “ until facts are known”. I agree completely, and it should apply to all sides of the discussion, including folks on this site.

  179. Mar

    Umm, Le Roi, a lot of facts are already known.
    From the police reports.

  180. dad29

    Nonthinking armchair quarterbacks watch too many muvees.

    Actually, Disney movies.  Fairy-princess ones.  But Jiffy and Flugg may actually be more intelligent than Tin-Pot Tony Evers.  So there’s that.

  181. Randall Flagg

    I wonder if self defense applies in Wi when a crime (illegal carrying of a fiream) is being committed?

  182. Randall Flagg

    Police chiefs need to worry about their own officers doing their jobs before they worry about Evers.

  183. dad29

     Watch some more Robocop.

    Like I said earlier, Jiffy is SUPERNATURAL.

    If he were there, he would have immediately discerned not only the kid’s age, but also his birthdate, names of his siblings and parents, plus when his ancestors immigrated to this country.

    Similarly, when the police ‘drove past’ the shooter, well………if it were Jiffy, he would have immediately known the guy was the shooter.  He would have known how many rounds he fired, and when.  He also would have known the guy’s name and birthdate, even though there were dozens of people screaming like mad, the cops were inside cars and/or armored vehicles, it was night-time, and ………..so forth.

    Jiffy, the SUPERNATURAL being, disdains ordinary mortals because they are just ………..ordinary.

    See?

  184. dad29

    But that doesn’t describe Kyle.  He was doing something wrong.

    Unfortunately, the neon sign saying “I DID SOMETHING WRONG” was not lit at the time the cops saw him.  Battery failure, we hear.

  185. dad29

    self defense applies in Wi

    At all times.  You don’t SERIOUSLY think that you forfeit your right to self-defense under ANY circumstances, do you?

    You’re usually a lot better than that.  Are you drinking Jiffy Kool-Ade?

  186. Randall Flagg

    Check out 939.48 dad29.  There are exceptions to claiming self defense.  I believe they apply to Kyle (he was actively committing a crime).  You could also argue he provoked the attack which also removes privilege in self defense.

     

  187. Le Roi du Nord

    And there is the principle of “proportional response”.  Skateboard vs. AR may not meet the test.

  188. Mar

    “And there is the principle of “proportional response”.  Skateboard vs. AR may not meet the test.”
    Tell you what Le Roi.
    Let me me get a skateboard and whack you over your head and then see how you feel.
    Of course, you may be dead, if that happens. But hey, who cares.

  189. Jason

    >You could also argue he provoked the attack which also removes privilege in self defense.

    You should have kept reading.  939.48.2.b.  Lots of videos of Kyle running from first felon, you know, the guy yelling “SHOOT ME NIGGA” over and over before he got his wish.

    The privilege lost by provocation may be regained if the actor in good faith withdraws from the fight and gives adequate notice thereof to his or her assailant.

    Lots of videos of Kyle running (withdrawing) from first felon (and recent video of another chaser shooting a pistol before Kyle turns and fires), you know, the guy yelling “SHOOT ME NIGGA” over and over before he got his wish.  That’s public record too.

    I saw some interesting equivocation logic elsewhere…. if Kyle is tried as an adult, then shouldn’t he be afforded the right to carry a firearm as an adult?  And if he is not afforded the right to carry a firearm due to being a minor, shouldn’t he be tried as a minor.  I think that’s hogwash, as the laws are clear 17 means you get tried as an adult, and 18 is the legal limit to carry a firearm.  But that should be addressed in the future.   Another thing to consider is 16, 17 are legal age to carry a rifle… and I think the law there leaves some wiggle room that Kyle’s lawyers will exploit.

     

  190. Randall Flagg

    I agree the provocation is a stretch.  But he was comitting a crime, which clearly nullifies self defense.

    And there is the principle of “proportional response”.  Skateboard vs. AR may not meet the test.

    Furthermore, given Kyle had already shot someone, you can argue they had the right to try and subdue him.  Especially since, as we saw, the police had no intention of doing so.

  191. Le Roi du Nord

    mar:

    Do you actually think you could do that?  That would require physical exertion on your part. You are delusional.

  192. Randall Flagg

    Good point Le Roi.  Given he spends all day listening to police scanners across the country, there is likely little muscle tone left.

  193. Mar

    Yeah, Le Roi, I could. And I am strong enough to hit you with a skateboard to kill you. I go to the gym and walk around 3-5 miles a day.
    Of course, and this good for you, you won’t suffer any brain damage as you need to have a brain to suffer brain damage.

  194. Le Roi du Nord

    No mar,  you couldn’t.  But we will never know, because that would require you to move away from the keyboard, come to northern WI, (there are bears up here, and you no doubt smell like a doughnut),  and do something physical.  Never gonna happen, big fella.

  195. Jason

    >That would require physical exertion on your part. 

    >that would require you to move away from the keyboard

    >and you no doubt smell like a doughnut)

    >big fella.

    Look at the attacks from Leroy.  So much for a shining knight on a white horse.  He’s just an asshole like us peasants.   Oh how the mighty have fallen. Another professional victim like Fousty.

    >Good point Le Roi.  Given he spends all day listening to police scanners across the country, there is likely little muscle tone left.

    Self police much, hypocrite?

  196. Jason

    >you can argue they had the right to try and subdue him

    They had the right to try, and he had the right to defend himself further.  Simple law dude.

  197. Le Roi du Nord

    Hey j, mar says he will hit me with a skateboard and kill me, and I’m the attacker? You must have one of k’s flexible dictionaries.

  198. Mar

    Le Rou, I used to live in Montana and Wisconsin Rapids. Plenty of bears, including grizzlies. Never had a problem with them.

  199. Mar

    But I’ll tell you what Le Roi. I’m in Phoenix now and the BLM and Antifa terrorists haven’t had a good riot or beat down in a few months.
    Ill hire a rent-a-thug.
    I’ll fly them out to Green Bay, get transportation for them and they can take a swing at you with a skateboard. And then I’ll fly them back.
    Might cost me about $1000 but money well spent. And they would love to it since you support law enforcement.
    How about it big boy, are you up to the challenge?

  200. jjf

    Dad29 flies off his rails, projecting about SUPERNATURAL-ism.  Uhm, that’s you with the religion and the super-powers.

    And Mar shows the true colors underneath it all:  Eventually the bullying becomes actual physical threats, because Might makes Right, right?

  201. Le Roi du Nord

    mar:

    The claim was that YOU could do it. Now you want to hire someone to do it for you. Looks like a classic case of big talk, no action. And not a surprise.

  202. Mar

    Listen you little chicken, you said a skateboard doesn’t count as a deadly weapon.
    You should be willing to be hit by one by anyone.
    But like I said, it won’t cause any brain damage to you because you need a brain to get brain damage.
    But in reality,if you don’t think a skateboard can cause physical damage to a person, you are a far bigger idiot than I thought you before you said that.

  203. jjf

    Reality check, Mar.  Step away from the physical threats.

  204. Mar

    Just trying to prove a point, jjf.
    To counter Le Roi’s moronic statement.

  205. Pat

    This has truly turned into a shit show.
    Awful. Just awful.

  206. jjf

    No, Mar, your fantasies have extended into daydreams of hiring thugs to beat your Internet adversaries.  And you wonder how Kyle could be motivated to saddle up and head to Kenosha, ready to pick a fight?  And all Owen can do is sigh and say “this was inevitable.”

  207. Mar

    No, jjf, Le Roi made an incredibly stupid comment and then defended it.
    It is idiots like you who refuse to stand and up and condemn stupid comments made by Le Roi.
    You support his lying,you support his uncivil behavior and it needs to be called out.
    But you are too weak to do so.
    But then, you support doxxing, so I am not surprised.
    And you are quite uncivil.

  208. Le Roi du Nord

    No mar, I didn’t say that. And how am I the “chicken”? You are the one making excuses for not following up on your threats. And the only point you proved is that you are all talk, no action.

  209. Mar

    Again, Le Roi, I am not going to assault and kill you.
    You made an an incredibly stupid comment. Just moronic, that only a person 3 brain cells can make.
    I just wanted to prove how stupid you are and it really isn’t that hard to do.
    A skateboard cannot cause serious injury?
    Seriously?

  210. Le Roi du Nord

    That isn’t what I said, and you know it. But don’t let facts and reality get in your way.

  211. Mar

    There you go lying again, Pathological Liar Le Roi.

  212. dad29

    proportional response

    “….in danger of life or grave bodily harm.”   Plus the handgun pointed at him, of course.

    You were a REMF for WI law enforcement, right?  Call your pals, if any remain such.

    Flugg:  As to “criminal activity” exception…….well……….let’s see if the Kenosha DA tries that line in front of a jury.  If he does, that validates your jailhouse-lawyer “thinking.”

    Don’t hold your breath.

  213. dad29

    Dad29 flies off his rails

    You feel Bullied, special John?

    Awwwwww.  You can cry.  It’s alright.

  214. Mar

    So, jjf wants to have adult conversations but yet tries to bully people and their religions.
    Maybe if stops being a troll.
    And thank you for your contribution, Pat, to the sh_t show. You made quite a contribution.

  215. Le Roi du Nord

    Hey mar, if that is what I said, why don’t you provide the quote, exact, and in context.  Or would that be too much exertion for you?

  216. Mar

    Nah, I’m not going to play your game, Pathological Liar Le Roi.
    You know what you said.
    You can do your own dirty work.
    Just look up skateboard vs AR.

  217. Le Roi du Nord

    Yes mar, I know what I said, where to find it, and that it isn’t even close to what you claim.

    Just another example of your “all talk, no action” MO.  At least you are consistent.

  218. jjf

    Yes, Dad29, I’m crying like a fuzzy-necked little baby, and I’m wishing for my big-boy pants!

    Have I given you a tingle in your bully parts?

  219. jjf

    Did the self-styled militias go there with the intention to start a fight if not a fire-fight, just as much as the violent gas-huffing anarchists went there to make some trouble?

  220. Mar

    “Did the self-styled militias go there with the intention to start a fight if not a fire-fight”
    Nope.

  221. dad29

    Nope.

    C’mon, maaaaaaaannnn!

    Jiffy the Supernatural has the answer.  He’s omniscient!  Just by looking at the cellphone video, he knew Kyle’s DNA sequence and could recite it, complete.

    Rain-man!!

    Don’t say “Nope.”  Only Jiffy knows.

  222. jjf

    What exactly are you upset about, Dad29?  It’s always so hard to know, what with all the eyebrow raises and Capital Letters.

  223. dad29

    Regarding the question about whether the AR-15 slug did NOT go through Sex-Offender Rosenbaum’s head:

    Rosenbaum had a gunshot wound to the right groin which fractured his pelvis, a gunshot wound to the back which perforated his right lung and liver, a gunshot wound to the left hand, a superficial gunshot wound to his lateral left thigh, and a graze gunshot wound to the right side of his forehead.

    The gun was never pointed directly at the sex-offender’s head; ergo, no through-and-through.

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