Don’t you kind of wonder why this isn’t already the law? Or, at least, the policy in every district in the state? And why, pray tell, are the Democrats fighting so hard to prevent the prohibition of teaching racism in schools? They are fighting anti-racism racism like they did in the 1960s.
The legislation would require teachers to post their syllabuses online and districts to provide copies of curriculum under the state’s open records law, without charges or delays, and would establish a complaint process for parents, staff or groups who object to the materials being taught.
[…]
Under the bills, violations include teaching that one race or sex is superior to another; a person is inherently racist by virtue of his or her race or sex; a person’s moral character is determined by race or sex; a person should feel guilty for past acts committed by people of his or her race or sex; and systems based on meritocracy are racist or sexist or designed to oppress people of another race.
This is trash. A syllabus is an outline. Conversations inside classrooms can go anywhere with a good teacher. Trying to legislate what teachers can even discuss in a classroom sounds a bit authoritarian to me. I remember when republicans claimed that they were the small government crowd. But it sure sounds like they really want to govern every minor aspect of things these days.
So when a great conversation about the civil war starts to diverge into racism and from there into some of these subjects a high school teacher should just be shutting down that conversation completely for fear that some student will tell their parents.
And screw anyone that wants to legislate what can be taught in universities. These are adults and if they want to take a class on the philosophy of racist meritocracy based systems… FINE! I don’t care, and neither should you. If the university can get enough students to sign up for the class to justify employing a professor to teach it. Good on them.
“And screw anyone that wants to legislate what can be taught in universities.”
Great, let’s have balance and have a class featuring the good side of Hitler and the KKK.
But the problem is that some colleges mandate these types of classes of CRT, or ethnic studies to graduate. Though, I’m not sure if any colleges mandate it, but many liberal colleges do.
I know that the past couple of school districts I worked for aleady have the syallabus online.
And yes, a responsible teacher should shut down a conversation if it strays off course or it gets too emotional.
MAR, yes if it gets too emotional or strays off course. But that is subjective and there are a 100 scenarios we could go through. But in general in HS classes, almost any conversation is probably worthwhile if the students are engaged.
AND YES. If there were enough people to sign up for that class, I would support the freedom of the college to offer it. Thankfully I don’t think we would need to worry about that for multiple reasons.
Getting into college GRE (or CRT? or whatever they are called now) is an entirely different conversation. 20 years ago as an architecture major I had to take some some general classes to fulfill my requirements. I took: Africology, Bodysense, Bowling, and Renaissance Art History. I hated that I was required to take useless classes to graduate. But that is an entirely different convo.
But in general in HS classes, almost any conversation is probably worthwhile if the students are engaged.
“Almost any”?
And how, exactly, do you define that?
By the way, the legislation does NOT include colleges. Good to see you’re up on the facts!
Dad29. If it doesn’t, then the article that Owen linked to was incorrect.
“The bills, introduced by legislative Republicans in June, would bar public schools, universities and technical colleges from teaching students and training employees about concepts such as systemic racism and implicit bias.”
“Almost Any”. Yes, there is some interpretation that the teacher will always have to make based on the subject. If they start talking about Minecraft and every student is engaged… that might not be productive.
DAD29…
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2021/proposals/ab413
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2021/proposals/sb409
I did a little checking and UWM and UW Madison require an ethnic or diversity class to graduate. So much for choice.
UW Stevens Point, however, apparently does not require it.
I took a required diversity class through Grand Canyon University a few years ago and that teacher damn well was teaching CRT. It basically was a racist teaching about all the evils in the US and when I disagreed with her, well my grade suffered.
>article that Owen linked to was incorrect.
The source is “MADISON.COM” so no surprise there. What’s interesting is that this shitrag of journalism didn’t name any of the bills. Just editorialized on them and paraphrased a number of people… not even direct quotes with one or two exceptions. Shit work by a shit liberal rag.
Well my links are waiting moderation but look up ab413 & sb409 for WI legislature. It SURE looks like it is focusing on public universities and employees.
Dad29… can you verify that?
Could some help mar out and point out what the “ good side of Hitler and the KKK” is ?
Nord. Stop.
Mar. Dont Respond.
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2021/proposals/ab413
It is about colleges and universities among others.
The reality is that the State and Feds dictate much of what is taught in the schools. Usually, the DPI will set standards for each subject being taught in almost every class.
And then you the proficiency exams and graduation tests (which I oppose because teachers teach to the test and rarely stray off course because it effects the teacher evaluations)
I am also against things some conservatives want like video or audio taping in the classrooms. That’s such a stupid idea in so many ways.
Finally, if teachers think they have the right to teach anything they want, especially in elementary and high school, they are sadly mistaken and are in the wrong field of employment.
Mar, I don’t think many people are advocating for actual audio/video in the classroom. Just that blowhard spotlight chaser David Clark is all I have seen.
I do agree with much of what you say about teaching to tests, etc. I think that teachers need some freedoms to expand certain subjects while still hitting the main requirements of the state. Unfortunately there is a perception that every teacher is a far left liberal that is trying to indoctrinate kids with some sort of American guilt and hate. While the reality is that many people (including myself) just see that the USA is a flawed country that has an awful history (and a great history) that needs to be taught. Ultimately we shouldn’t be using schools to nationalize the population any more than we should be to condemn it. Balance.
Curriculums should be public and easy to access. And parents should probably have a weekly convo with their kids on what they are learning in school as well. Parents can then take that information and make informed decisions about what they need to do. Either address it with the school/school board, or maybe pull their kid out of the school. Or anything in between.
“Unfortunately there is a perception that every teacher is a far left liberal that is trying to indoctrinate kids with some sort of American guilt and hate.”
I agree. While the majority of teachers are moderate to liberal, there are still quite a few conservatives in the field.
The one complaint I have is that there are so many teachers out there who have no real world experience.
They go from elementary school to high school to college to the classroom. Other maybe a summer job, these kids/teachers lack the empathy that parents go through. They cannot understand why a parent cannot just go home from work to pick up a sick kid at a moments notice. Or that a parent cannot make an IEP meeting just before or after school because the parent works a shift job.
My error. There are two different bills. 413 covers colleges and t-schools. The other one covers grade- and high-schools.
there is some interpretation that the teacher will always have to make based on the subject
Should the discussion lead to truth in a given matter?
That’s such a stupid idea in so many ways.
Why? One sentence later you state that ‘wayward’ (my word) teachers are in the wrong business.
It’s a lot easier to find out who’s ‘wayward’ with video.
By the way: LOTS of teachers were caught being ‘wayward’ because of Covid’s forcing of ‘virtual’ teaching. Apparently they don’t get fired, and there’s little doubt that they enjoy that status because Superintendents just won’t pull the trigger.
SOMEBODY has to take names and kick ass.
Dad29. I will be OK with recording and filming teachers. As long as the tax payers foot the bill. I feel the same about school protection. Teachers are hired to teach. That means you need to hardwire the ENTIRE school, buy cameras, pay a professional to setup recordings, pay for storage of said recordings, and setup a secure way for parents to watch or listen. There are like 2200 public schools in WI. That would only cost hundreds of millions of dollars to do that. Go ahead and put it on the tax bill. We will see who REALLY wants that.
Funny, my son did very well during Covid. But his teacher wasn’t great. She was not asked to come back this year because enough parents complained about her.
Dad29, you ask about “truth”. There is not usually a given truth in a subject such as history or social studies. Unless you are talking straight names and dates. So no, the discussions shouldn’t lead to an absolute truth, they should spark interest and keep the students engaged.
Honestly, there are still like 20% of the right that still believe that Donald Trump won the election. Morons.
I don’t like video because some people are camera shy and don’t do well if there is a camera set up in the room. I would be one of those who are camera shy.
Yes, you found some wayward teacher during zoom classes and probably had a lot more kids who hated to be on zoom and just didn’t participate.
There are other ways to get a wayward teacher. Cell phone recording, have your kid tell you what is going on, sit in the classroom or have an administrator sit in the classroom.
And of those wayward who were caught, how many were actually fired?
Jonnyv: “Trying to legislate what teachers can even discuss in a classroom sounds a bit authoritarian to me. ”
It does doesn’t it? Yet liberals have legislated virtually all religion out of school history even when relevant or even the whole point of historical events. I have read a chapter of a ‘modern’ text book that taught the crusades with virtually no mention of the religions. It was all about white european hate of the Moors that really caused the crusades, and the only mention of religion was that greedy kings and feudal lords used it simply to slake their avarice. Religion is a part of life and to line veto it out of public school is both ridiculous and can lose the entire context of the history lesson. Why did most of the early settlers move to the new world? Can’t say religious freedom. Whatever…to teach about religious freedom one would be stupid to exclude descriptions of religions, yet that is what we have.
Dad29: “Why? One sentence later you state that ‘wayward’ (my word) teachers are in the wrong business.
It’s a lot easier to find out who’s ‘wayward’ with video.”
Being a natural born Slytherin, I will answer that. Public schools have suffered more and more over the last few decades as more and more ‘raising the children’ responsibilities have been given to teachers, all while banning almost all sorts of punishments. Kids have recognized that and acting out is orders of magnitude more common than it was 4 decades ago. Now imagine the dozens of ways kids could engineer a teacher breakdown in a class in front of a video. Imagine all the hot shots doing stupid things just for the camera.
There is not usually a given truth in a subject such as history or social studies.
Actually, there is, as T demonstrated above. It is utterly ridiculous–and a lie–to state that ‘white Euro kings despised the Moors’ when the Moors had NOTHING to do with Jerusalem. You can look it up.
“Is there “systemic racism” in the USA? Let’s define “systemic”, class”. That alone should blow out an entire 50 minute period.
As to handing off parenthood to teachers: that may well have happened in some areas, but not all. Discipline issues remain in SOME areas, not all. And to the surprise of nobody at all, areas in which discipline or ‘handoff parenting’ is a problem are areas in which student achievement is ‘below standard.’
Except in some areas where “Choice” exists. By no coincidence, “Choice” students are at- or above-expectations in standardized tests. Hmmmmm!
By the way, Trump won the election. Only lotus-eaters believe otherwise.
Hmmm dud, maybe in 2016, but certainly not in 2020. There is no verifiable evidence to prove your claim. But a lot that disagrees with you. Tighten that tinfoil.
Whatever you say. Keep tuned to CNN, the utterly reliable source.
I’ll say it again anytime you need positive reinforcements.
Could you provide an “ utterly reliable source”, or a court decision, that proves your claim?
BTW, August is almost half over, how is that reinstatement going?
We’ll wait for the results of the audits to see who is right.
But utterly reliable?
You must be against vaccine shots because they are not utterly reliable.
You must think mask mandates from the Chinese virus are not utterly reliable.
You must believe that lockdowns was a stupid idea because they were not utterly reliable.
You must think that schools being shut down was a bad idea because they were not under utter reliable sources.
You must think the fake doctor Fauci is a fraud because he is not utterly reliable.
But you have to believe that President Trump got the ball rolling for the vaccines with Project Warp Speed and that is utterly reliable.
I believe that you need to stay on topic, mar.
That’s what loser of an argument says.
BTW, August is almost half over, how is that reinstatement going?
Better than Your Leader’s exit from Afghanistan.
But fyi, I NEVER believed that Trump would be installed after it’s proven that he won the ’20.
Until 2025, of course.
Wrong again, mar. You lost the “argument “ when you switched topics and followed up with a series of false assumptions.
dud: You may as well wait until 2050, trump didn’t win 2020, and won’t in whatever future you dream of.
BTW dud, last April trump was whining about Biden not getting out of Afghanistan quick enough. How would trump have done it? Oh, that’s right , he wouldn’t have done it, then blamed someone else, right?
Pervert Boy Le Roi thinks that rules for thee but not for me
I was directly respobdinging to something you said, Pervert Boy Le Roi.
Now, go on your conjugal visit with the pervert judge you love and support and don’t forget the baby.
“How would trump have done it?”
He would not have done it in a haphazard way that Senile Joe has done.
And if the Taliban tried to make a comeback, he wouldn’t let it happen.
I am pretty sure of that.
But it doesn’t matter because Senile Joe is in charge. Not President Trump.
Truck Driver Joe owns this and us too blame for whatever happens
Oh, and talk about changing subjects, Pervert Boy Le Roi.
You just dit it.
Rules for thee, not for me, right, Pervert Boy Le Roi?
Mar’s right. Makes no diff what Trump woulda/shoulda/coulda.
Cheesebrain Joe* and the damnfool Milley screwed this up royally.
He’s YOUR President, pal.
Nord, who prefers that his Democratic sex abusers be pedophiles, said: last April trump was whining about Biden not getting out of Afghanistan quick enough
No whining, just giving some friendly cautionary advice to the guy behind the wheel. Kind of like, “watch out for that curve, it comes up pretty fast.”
Trump calls Afghanistan withdrawal ‘a wonderful and positive thing to do’ and criticizes Biden’s timeline (Note – notice how CNN has to put a twist in the headline to get Nord’s attention)
Though the former President offered his support of President Joe Biden’s plans to bring home American troops, he urged his successor to draw an end to America’s longest war well before the September 11 deadline that Biden set last week. Trump said that while leaving Afghanistan is “a wonderful and positive thing to do,” he had set a May 1 withdrawal deadline and added that “we should keep as close to that schedule as possible.”
“I wish Joe Biden wouldn’t use September 11 as the date to withdraw our troops from Afghanistan, for two reasons. First, we can and should get out earlier. Nineteen years is enough, in fact, far too much and way too long,” Trump said, adding: “September 11 represents a very sad event and period for our Country and should remain a day of reflection and remembrance honoring those great souls we lost.” (Hillary Clinton unavailable for comment on the significance of 9/11 anniversary dates.).
Well Trump is right, we are getting out before September 11th.
Dad29 says Makes no diff what Trump woulda/shoulda/coulda”
If Trump were in charge, I doubt we would be looking at expending $500,000,000 missile inventory to take out some of the military assets (helicopters, surface to air missiles, Humvees, arms, etc.) that the Taliban has managed to seize. Wonder if the USA will find enough computer chips to rearm – might be in the hands of China.
“Regarding Afghanistan, our primary military objective is to conduct a safe, responsible, and deliberate retrograde of U.S. forces from Afghanistan in good order.”
General Milley, May 6, 2021
What he didn’t add – “But first we must make sure that our forces have been armed with the proper Critical Race Theory training.”
Desperation Is In the air
President Joe Biden’s administration has been holding secret talks with more countries than previously known in a desperate attempt to secure deals to temporarily house at-risk Afghans who worked for the U.S. government, four U.S. officials told Reuters.
“It is deeply troubling that there is no concrete plan in place to evacuate allies who are clearly in harm’s way,” said Krish O’Mara Vignarajah, president of the Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service resettlement organization.
“It is baffling why the administration has been taking so long in order to secure these agreements,” she said.
Two U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said countries were hesitant to take in the Afghans because of concerns about the quality of security vetting and health screening for COVID-19 before they were allowed to fly.
“There’s concerns that you might expect: ‘Who are these people? How do you know these people? Can you assure that these people will get visas to the United States? Who’s going to care for and feed these people. What happens if these people wander off this facility you’ve got them in?” a senior State Department official said.
Just drop them off at the southern border and let them walk in.
mar, next time you are respobdinging to something I said, make sure you know the subject. Otherwise your respobding is nonsense. But that is usually the case with you.
>mar, next time you are respobdinging to something I said, make sure you know the subject. Otherwise your respobding is nonsense. But that is usually the case with you.
Mar made a mistake, didn’t proof before hitting “submit”. Big deal, you do it often too. Do you feel good to be a prick while apologizing once a week for doing the same?
Oh and once again you didn’t dispute anything said, just focused on a typo…. average Leroy attacks again.
Yes j , mar makes a lot of mistakes, spelling is just one of them, a pretty minor one. But I won’t use the same language that he uses, or that you use. But if you guys feel that your bad language makes you more relevant, go for it.
>a pretty minor one.
And yet you just can’t be above it, shows how minor you are…. mister “More of a Scientist”. Just keep making your list, you little candy ass.
Le Roi du Nord likes the Afghans because they fuck kids.
“But if you guys feel that your bad language makes you more relevant, go for it.”
So says Pervert Boy Le, who disrespects everyone here.
What a little crybaby, Pervert Boy Le Roi is.