Overall, 5,731 active-duty sailors remain unvaccinated, and at this point Navy officials say they believe most of those will likely continue to refuse the order, weeks after the Nov. 28 deadline for full vaccination.
“If a sailor gets their shot, we will honor that and make every effort to retain them,” Rear Adm. James Waters, the Navy’s director of military personnel plans and policy, told reporters. “On the other hand, those who continue to refuse the vaccine will be required to leave the Navy.”
[…]
Marine Corps Commandant Gen. David Berger was blunt in speaking with reporters during a roundtable at the Reagan National Defense Forum this month, saying “we’re not bluffing” in enforcing the order and removing Marines who refuse their shots.
This only weakens us if we are unable to replace them. By that same measure, any restrictions on Naval officers “weakens our national security.”
– Not allowing blacks… weakens our national security.
– Not allowing women… weakens our national security.
– Not allowing gays… weakens our national security.
– Not allowing transgender people… weakens our national security.
– Not allowing (insert latest boogeyman from left or right)… weakens national security.
If the .017% men and women of the Navy are unable or unwilling to follow orders, then they are clearly not meant for the Navy. Enjoy civilian life and we will move on.
>If the .017% men and women of the Navy are unable or unwilling to follow orders, then they are clearly not meant for the Navy.
You should stick to something else, because you suck terribly at math.
Funny how you bring up all this discrimination in defense of discriminating against a person’s medical choice :)
“Not allowing transgender people… weakens our national security.”
Well, that would be a false statement.
Johnny, do you know what jobs they were in? So, yes, it could affect our security. What if they were nuclear engineers? Mechanics. Jet air a I rplane mechanics.
Why are you under the delusion that all jobs can be replaced? There are many skilled positions in the military that need skilled workers.
If they were paper pushers, then I might agree with you but you don’t know what these jobs are and the future jobs that will.be lost.
Why are you dissing these important jobs?
jv, it’s also funny you didn’t bring up
– Not allowing religious beliefs … weakens our national security.
Since Owen’s article happens to mention that absolutely 0 religious exemptions have been approved… the very definition of discrimination that you’re mad about.
Jason, my main concern about Johnny’s post is that he thinks that Navy personnel can be replaced without affecting the mission. He just assumes that you xan just replace the jobs lost with another body.
No matter the training, the experience need needed for the the jobs lost
That’s discrimination right there and being ignorant about the armed forces.
The Navy, as all armed forces, replace personnel all the time.
Per the Federal News, 2020 retention for members with 6 years or less was 69%, hence an attrition rate of 31%. Vets with 10-14 years was 11%. So the 1.7% mentioned in the article is peanuts compared to routine annual attrition.
Right, says the Stolen Valor Le Roi.
But sinnce you don’t know who was fired, you have no clue who discharged and what jobs they had.
Nor do you, mar.
No, I don’t, which makes your claim even more uneducated.
And, again, tell us about your military service, Stolen Valor Le Roi.
How so, mar? I made no claim to know who was, or wasn’t, retained, you did. There you go again, projecting your ignorance and sloth on others.
You are such an uneducated moron.
You know nothing about the military and training.
You just cannot pull a person off the street and put them in a job, no matter the job title.
You just don’t train a person to work in the office Ora grunt on the ground or a pilot.
They also train you to be a soldier, sailor, airman, or a marine.
You learn to fire guns, how to flow rules, self defense and get you into shape.
After basic, then you go into your job training, which takes several months or longer, depending on the job.
But since you lied about being in the military, it is understandable why you are ignorant about the military.
Let me ask you this, could a person just come off the street and do your job when you worked for the State of Wisconsin?
Parallel……Amtrak announced serious schedule reductions because about 5% of its employees would NOT comply with their Vaxx-or-test regimen. Amtrak backed off their ridiculous mandate and the trains will run on time (more or less) and continue losing huge dollars every day!!!
So yes, the MOS may make a very big difference in operational viability.
How well did you flow the rules? Or didn’t they apply to someone as special as you.?
I guess, since you have nothing, you just admitted that you were wrong again.
What is one word, Lying Karen Le Roi,that will never be used to describe you: intelligent.
Jason. there are 336,978 active duty. 5,731 is .017. Sorry I messed up the decimal when I meant to put 1.7% (.017). 2% of the people will not comply.
And for those with reading comprehension issues, I said, “IF WE CANT REPLACE THEM”. There will be some that are more difficult to replace. But we have a highly skilled and trained armed forces, and I would assume that many are backed up by OTHER highly skilled people. Next man / woman up.
I wouldn’t want any sort of religious restrictions on our military. But there also are VERY VERY few religions that don’t believe in vaccinations. There is no major Catholic or Christian religion who fall under this umbrella, and any that claim to are lying. So, we should allow the “Dutch Reformed Congregations” to continue to serve, cool.
I have listened to a few stories from my uncle who served during Vietnam that when he signed up they just gave him shots without him ever knowing what they were.
“I would assume that many are backed up by OTHER highly skilled people. Next man / woman up.”
This isn’t a football game where you have 50-80 players on the sideline.
That next person might come from another base or straight from their training.
That, or you would have to have some do their own job and the job of the person they kicked out.
Of course, Johnny, there is one more flaw in your argument:
There is a reason why those men and women are on the bench, because they are not good enough to start.
>But there also are VERY VERY few religions that don’t believe in vaccinations.
Well, according to the article “The Navy is still considering about 2700 exemptions” so that’s what, 0.8% … roughly…. is that VERY VERY few? No stats on if any have been approved yet in that article… but this one https://news.usni.org/2021/11/30/navy-does-not-approve-any-religious-exemptions-as-covid-19-vaccine-deadline-passes says 0.000000000% have been approved.
Kinda conflicts with this statement from you, no?
>I wouldn’t want any sort of religious restrictions on our military.
I’m so glad you brought up your Uncle, great story. That some government also sprayed agent orange all over their own troops during that war. Do you really want to defend that? Does your Uncle? How many people do you think don’t have Uncles due to that fiasco?
The Muslim religion is against vaccines. That’s a sizeable number of people.
Mar, the Muslim faith is against the use of fetal tissue, not vaccines in general. I work with someone who is Muslim and he was vaccinated. Some mosques actually were requiring vaccination to attend.
And as far as my next person up. the reason that people are on the bench isn’t necessarily because they are not as good. There are other scenarios that are looked at as well such as seniority & rank. I have a lot of faith in our skilled military persons, if they are trained to do a job, I think that they can do it.
Jason, if you are comparing Agent Orange to mRNA… I can’t talk with you about this because you are operating at a level of crazy that is beyond reach.
How is Jason “crazy”?
Better yet, jonnyv, list the effects of mRNA in the 5- and 10- year terms. Be specific. We’ll wait.
The Catholic church is opposed to any vaccine using fetal stem-cells in its composition OR which use fetal stem-cells in testing. The former is the J&J and the latter is Pfizer/Moderna in the case of CoviDOOM.
Johnny,my source.
Either they are wrong or your friend is not a devout Muslim.
“News outlets are reporting an increase in the cases of vaccine-preventable diseases – and some outbreaks – from Thailand and Indonesia due to religious concerns about vaccinations. In both countries, Muslim religious authorities have declared vaccines to be unacceptable since, according to them, vaccines contain pork-derived products. In Islam, consuming pork is forbidden.
Islam is not the only religion in the world that has come into friction with vaccine recommendations. Of the major religions practiced in the United States, only the Church of Christ, Scientist (whose adherents are known as “Christian Scientists”) and the Dutch Reformed Church are the two religious groups that openly discourage vaccination. Islam in the United States, for the most part, has not opposed vaccination under the principle of necessity, meaning that vaccines are necessary for health, so they cannot be prohibited by religious law.”
https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/blog/religion-vaccination-confusion
Johnny, from the UK Daily Mail: Navy officials have begun terminating the 5,731 active-duty sailors, or 2 percent of its active branch, who remain unvaccinated two weeks after the established deadline, leaders of the military branch confirmed on Thursday.
No, the next person up will not be able step up for 5,731 positions.
Senile Joe Biden and his puppeteers wants to dismantl the military and make us a 3rd world country.
That cannot be disputed as they have weakened the border and allowed of illegals in the country, weaken law enforcement, allow illegal drugs to enter the country, restrict ships coming into the country, increased tge inflation rate, and spending trillions of dollars that will harm u our children, grand children and great grabdchildren.
great grabdchildren.
Biden’s favorite kind of little girls11
“I have listened to a few stories from my uncle who served during Vietnam that when he signed up they just gave him shots without him ever knowing what they were.”
That’s probably true Johnny. I had the experience when I was in the Air Force when we got vaccinations in 1980. I got vaccinated in boot camp from something and had an adverse reaction.
Do you think, then, why I would have severe doubts about a new vaccine?
Along with others who took the experimental vaccines during the c Vietnam War?
Or how about the Blacks who have ancestors who were abused with experimental vaccines and other shots?
>Jason, if you are comparing Agent Orange to mRNA… I can’t talk with you about this because you are operating at a level of crazy that is beyond reach.
Hey, you brought up your Uncle and Vietnam… I was totally relating to that. Oh you mean that your central thesis for that was “Your uncle took an arm full of unknown chemicals and was ok”, well then let me counter with “I saw a guy blindfolded run across I94 after a Brewers Game and not get hit by a car”. I guess they’re both safe things to do, right?
It also did not escape my notice that you cherry picked one tiny little word out of my reply. I guess that means that you realized your errors, and I did gud.
For those that forgot already:
“The Navy, as all armed forces, replace personnel all the time.
Per the Federal News, 2020 retention for members with 6 years or less was 69%, hence an attrition rate of 31%. Vets with 10-14 years was 11%. So the 1.7% mentioned in the article is peanuts compared to routine annual attrition.”
>Per the Federal News, 2020 retention for members with 6 years or less was 69%, hence an attrition rate of 31%. Vets with 10-14 years was 11%. So the 1.7% mentioned in the article is peanuts compared to routine annual attrition.”
Are you actually implying that the Navy, as all armed forces, had succession plans in place for these 1.7% that have not been woked-poked yet? Usually succession planning takes years, and key resources age out, but you think that between Bidums mandate and today, they are able to plan that? That’s really your counter point? NEXT!
I am stating that the Navy loses far more personnel every year due to routine attrition. If they don’t have a succession plan (new enlistment) it wouldn’t take many years to have no one left steering the ship. Geez, do the math.
Yah, well, “new enlistment” ain’t going too well, either. Physical and mental requirements for armed forces are eliminating a lot of people.
And volunteering for service under Biden* and his Obama-Jamma commanders is dropping off fast. No surprise there.
>I am stating that the Navy loses far more personnel every year due to routine attrition. If they don’t have a succession plan (new enlistment) it wouldn’t take many years to have no one left steering the ship. Geez, do the math.
I’m sorry, I thought you were capable of reading and understanding what I wrote – my bad.
What I tried to educate you of… this is NOT routine attrition. And so all that bullshit you smeared on your shirt when you posted… is meaningless to the adults in the conversation.
Better?
How little faith you have in our military leaders, j. Every year they deal with routine double digit % attrition, yet you don’t think they can handle this 1.7% loss.
Maybe you should be more concerned about educating yourself, as it sure looks like you are sorely lacking.
Mar, I have never asked “how devout” he is. That is not my business, nor do I really care. I am sure that like many religions there is a wide spectrum of beliefs. Because according to Dad29, any Catholic that gets the vaccine isn’t devout. Here is a nice article about a Muslim doc who says it is obligatory and his reasoning.
The other thing Dad29. Here is a statement from Catholic Bishops.
“The USCCB calls on Catholics to make vaccine brand choices that avoid use of vaccines associated with aborted fetal tissue, but permits the use of vaccines with remote association with evil as long as there are no alternative vaccines available and the intent is to preserve life.”
Pfizer: Pfizer/BioNTech’s coronavirus/COVID vaccine known as “BNT162b2” was developed using genetic sequencing on computers without using fetal cells. The HEK-293 abortion-related cell line was used in research related to this vaccine, but not the testing of the vaccine. This cell line originated from kidney cells from a fetus that was aborted in 1973. No cell line, fetal or otherwise, is required for the ongoing production of this vaccine. This vaccine is currently in use and requires two doses.
And Dad29, I am sure you have heard that the mRNA has been being tested since the mid 90s on mice. Here is a nice article if you want to inform yourself.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w
Most vaccine side affects happen within the first few months. The vaccine technologies have been studied and used for years in other treatments without any issues. Anyone claiming they are not getting the vaccine due to possible long-term side effects is either uninformed or using it as an awful excuse. There are much better and less stupid reasons if you choose not to get the vaccine.
Woops. This didn’t link under my first Paragraph.
https://ifyc.org/article/muslim-doctor-i-don-t-say-vaccination-permissible-i-say-it-obligatory
“Anyone claiming they are not getting the vaccine due to possible long-term side effects is either uninformed or using it as an awful excuse.”
I’m not getting vaccines not only possible long term effects, effects no knows what will happen 5-years down the line, but also short term effects and because I already had covid, so I have natural immunity and finally,as we are seeing in this new strain, vaccines no effect on it.
I can see you’re still a lost cause Leroy. Enjoy your ignorance – for an intelligent person it would be humbling but with you it seems like you relish it.
At the beginning of the pandemic, President Trump and his team came up with 3 vaccines, treatments, some more effective than others,
Now, Senile Joe has killed more people in 11 months with a vaccine and treatments than those who died under the Trump presidency who, for the most part did not have the vaccine and treatments were hit and miss.
Why has Senile Joe and the liberals screw things so much? Was it on purpose? Is it because of the liberal power play? Is it incompetence?
Mar, you are incorrect when you say that the vaccines have no effect. That is ignorant. The vaccines will help your body fight off a more serious infection. The vaccines do not help significantly in deterring the spread (other than shortening your sickness), but they absolutely DO help with the side effects and hospitalizations. All the numbers and statistics point to that.
From what I have read, natural immunity is not as good as the vaccine. But, that is splitting hairs and isn’t an exact science. I had COVID and got vaccinated as well. And I am about to schedule my booster.
FYI Mar, 8 of the top 10 states (per capita) of deaths are traditional “red states”. NY & NJ are the exception. Those red states are also the least vaccinated. Not only has this president and it’s administration pushed vaccines on the public, it appears that folks that live in red states are possibly pushing back against the vaccine. Possibly DUE to the fact that THIS administration has pushed it, and a natural distrust of gov’t in general. This is a damned if you do or don’t. If the administration didn’t push it, people would die. If the administration DOES push it, people will push back… and die. I would rather have the latter.
Johnny, even the fake doctor Fauci is saying that the vaccines do nothing for the new covid variant.
I agree that the first variants of Covid, the vaccine might have helped some people. But as the virus splits, they have a different make up. the vaccines have little effect the virus has changed but the vaccines havr not.
By the way Johnny, have I ever insulted you?
Lying Katen Le Roi says i have.
I cannot recall anytime I have insulted you.
Am I wrong or is Lying Karen Le Roi lying?
“At the beginning of the pandemic, President Trump and his team came up with 3 vaccines, treatments, some more effective than others,”
Now that is 100% unadulterated BS.
And Senile Le roi lies again.
Lying Karen Trolll Le Roi shows once again what a hateful uneducated troll he is.
Because according to Dad29, any Catholic that gets the vaccine isn’t devout.\
Not what I said, and for a reason: the Church disapproves, but the faithful MAY TAKE the Vaxx–or not. No Bishop, Cardinal, or Pope may over-rule the individual conscience (well-formed, or course.) There may be consequences later, of course.
Mice, eh? Speak for yourself, JonnyV.
As to your incomplete knowledge of Pfizer’s Vaxx, go find the Creighton University doctor’s statement on the question. In a word: you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Mar, according to Pfizer:
Preliminary laboratory studies demonstrate that three doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine neutralize the Omicron variant (B.1.1.529 lineage) while two doses show significantly reduced neutralization titers.
Yes Dad29, mice have a very similar physiology and anatomy to humans. Maybe your creator got lazy and started re-using parts. And feel free to point me to whatever Creighton statement, I may look at it, I don’t plan on seeking it out statements from random doctors. I try to keep my information gathering to official sites.
Johnny, I would not take any advice from Pfizer, especially since they have a huge financial stake in it. The more boosters the more money Pfizer makes.
From what I have read, including doctors and doctors in the US government, the vaccines don’t have much effect and that is why the numbers are going to soar. The good thing is that most people think the variant is weaker than the Delta variant but spreads more easily. And so far, thankfully no one has died with the O variant. I guess someone died who had it but that wasn’t the main cause of death.
Sorry, mis-attribution. It was U of Nebraska. You only have to read the 1st and 2nd grafs: https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells
You go ahead being a mouse. I’ll be a man.
Huh, you go on vacation and you miss things:).
JonnyV, I am not clear on a few things right from the beginning. You are comparing untrained blacks, women, gays and transgenders (that were never trained because in the past they were not allowed into the services) to the trained personnel that the navy is in the process of kicking out? You think that is an apples to apples comparison and that the people who we never spent a million dollars training weakened our national security as much as kicking out already trained personnel? Please tell me the flaw I am missing or admit that it was a bad comparison in the first place. Even your intended point is flawed as you are now advocating for the same type of discrimination you seem to be denigrating in the first place.
JonnyV:
“I wouldn’t want any sort of religious restrictions on our military.”
But you are for discriminating against the un-vaxxed… ‘kay.
“From what I have read, natural immunity is not as good as the vaccine.”
From what I have read that is an incorrect statement. The vaccine is better at decreasing the likelihood of getting Covid, but a higher percentage of natural immunity is more likely to cause an a-symptomatic case. Between the two, I would prefer the latter (though I am not against both).
“Preliminary laboratory studies demonstrate that three doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine neutralize the Omicron variant (B.1.1.529 lineage) while two doses show significantly reduced neutralization titers.” “…Neutralizes…” Do you know if that mean ‘prevents’? I am unclear on what the preliminary studies are claiming here. Can you clarify? I did not see a link for this quote.
JonnyV do you ridicule Ivermectin and HCQ as possible treatment options for Covid patients like Le Roi?
Tuerqas. Religion is a protected status. Your freedom of medical choice is not. If you don’t like it, vote for representatives that want to change that.
As far as my argument consisting of comparing this to other groups. I never claimed them to be untrained, but you could make that assumption. Anytime you lock out a group of people, you are decreasing the possible pool of highly qualified individuals. The point was that in history there has been many groups that have been held back from service. All of which could be considered to be weakening our national security. And as I have stated, I have faith in our military that we are prepared for backup and churn with our personnel. In the military, just as in private industry, no one is unreplaceable.
I wouldn’t ridicule them, but I would TRY to talk to them (as I have done with some family members). Telling them that Ivermectin and HCQ have ZERO proof of doing anything to protect, prevent, or cure the virus. And in fact India just took them off of their accepted use for COVID because there was no evidence that it significantly changed the mortality rate when being treated by them. If you can show me a large scale study that shows any verified statistical benefits, maybe I will change my mind. But it is unfortunate that these people are falling for a dangerous scam to the detriment of their health and others around them possibly.
As the quoted statement I didn’t provide reference for. This is directly off of the Pfizer site.
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-provide-update-omicron-variant
“Your freedom of medical choice is not.”
This is a joke, not a criticism of your commentary, but what came to mind when I read this was the movie RED when Willis talks about how Malkovich was given LSD for 11 years by the CIA. I do not honestly think that a volunteer to defend this country is giving up his/her right to refuse an injection of something, but I see it both ways. Contagions are a danger to a military force.
I will begin that I agree that no one is irreplaceable in the military, but what qualifies military personnel is training and better technology, not natural talent. I am not saying military personnel are trained apes, I am saying that there are literally millions of people who could be successfully trained at 90+% of any armed forces position. Their single largest loss of talent is that they are not competitive with a College education and not thought of as a quality track to a high standard of living. There are too many shows with vets as unemployed bums and PTSD victims, and commercials about disabled vets. Former discriminations are negatives, but I disagree that it ever weakened our national security.
Many studies on Ivermectin have shown ‘promise’ but not proof of aid in treating Covid and testing is ongoing. It has not shown ANY danger to the patients unless they start taking massive animal sized doses in any studies that I have seen to date, that is all lib media. Should a Doctor prescribe it? Well it has not shown any contraindications to date and has helped some people and seemed to have no effect on others. I am personally no less skeptical of those studies than I am of a senior Pfizer official saying take his product because “preliminary testing” has shown good results (like your link). Normally I think lib/cons would be on the opposite side of an issue like this. Liberals are normally quite distrustful of big business, big pharma in particular…I am too, and it does not quit just because the liberal media machine is currently backing big pharma. And CEOs of those companies are the least trustworthy of all. Your source quotes a CEO, not a scientist. That is sketchy to me. I have never seen any real studies of HCQ helping, but I looped it in as another example that has shown few to no negative indications in approved dosages. So I would not try to talk anyone out of either prescription if it was given by their Doctor, because I have seen many studies where placebos consistently have higher recovery rates than no treatment. As long as it doesn’t hurt and maybe it will help, I am okay with that.
Thanks.
Yes, the Ivermectin studies give mixed results–although the germane Covid-killer property of Ivermectin is in the “PfizerMectin” pill which will be available soon.
Sheer co-incidence, of course.
Consistently better results came from early use of HCQ/ZithPak/Zinc. Actual doctors who treated actual patients report that, and all their reports (from different parts of the country, with no correspondence between the doctors) read nearly identically. Doctors who chose, instead, to send their patients home without treatment only to have them bounce back to ICU and the morgue……well…….are they really “doctors”?
And LeeeeeeeeeeeeRoy’s fear of ‘running out of HQC’ is likely due to the fact that the world’s largest HQC factory burned down about 1-2 years ago.
>This is a joke, not a criticism of your commentary, but what came to mind when I read this was the movie RED when Willis talks about how Malkovich was given LSD for 11 years by the CIA. I do not honestly think that a volunteer to defend this country is giving up his/her right to refuse an injection of something, but I see it both ways. Contagions are a danger to a military force.
You might phrase it as a joke, but it’s extremely poignant and germane to the bigger picture – something that Leroy claims to care about but his posts NEVER reflect that. The fact we have “Atomic Veterans” is a big picture historical point of view that our Military and our Government should not be able to dictate my medical rights, EVER. The same with Agent Orange, the same with countless medical experiments that everyone in this country should be ashamed of, and outraged at. I will decide what and when and where with regards to my body. The fact that the FDA is disgustingly dragging their feet on releasing data from the Pfizer vaccine should be a ringing alarm klaxon to any person still capable of thinking – but we still have yokels like jv and Leroy who just want us to blindly trust our leadership. Fools.
I can see the commercial now: ”
If you or loved one took the Pfizer vaccine and were permanently damaged or killed because of it, you could be eligible for significant compensation. 30 trillion dollars has been set aside by the Government, and if you vote Democrat you can get your share…”
Unfortunately, Tuerqas, that will never happen since big pharmacy has 8nmunity. They can kill and hurt as many people they want since pharmacy has immunity, more immunity than their vaccines.
“since big pharmacy has 8mmunity”.
How is that working for Purdue Pharma and the Sackler family?
>How is that working for Purdue Pharma and the Sackler family?
Oh, I didn’t know Purdue Pharma and / or the Sackler family had produced and distributed a SARS-CoV19 vaccine. Can you share a link, I’d love to research it’s efficacy and possible contraindications, ok thanks Leroy – Mr Little Picture.
Granting immunity was–perhaps–a mistake by Trump. But he made that mistake on the advice of Fauci and a few others, probably the representative from Goldman in his Cabinet….
That said, Big Pharma has actually paid out all sorts of money, and has been convicted of serious offenses.
Perhaps someone could make the case that Fauci/Collins et.al. colluded in suppressing and/or removing other drugs which worked to prevent deaths, such as Ivermectin and HCQ–not to mention collusion in restraint of trade, done to the doctors who developed those remedies. CDC, NIH, and CMMS are clearly the villains here–in fact, they’re guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
It won’t be a hard case to make. Only takes a real A.G.
>Granting immunity was–perhaps–a mistake by Trump.
Likely it was the only way to get a “vaccine” out in such short time. And we’ve since learned that it was a complete fiasco and not worth the concessions. But dummies like Leroy will continue to extoll it, even if it does mean they support Trump in some small way. His small picture brain can’t think about long term consequences.
Ah Jason, it depends upon who you are. Lawmakers have learned that they can indeed strong arm people into taking a gene therapy treatment, and even bypass regulations, as they control the FDA. Who knows what goes into the future therapies…