These health officials have lost the trust they may have once had due their dictatorial abuse of power. No, it wasn’t all of them, but enough of them that people aren’t going to just sit by and trust that they will only use their power in a restrained and judicious manner.
SHEBOYGAN – One Sheboygan County official said a mere proposal led to a protest Tuesday evening, Aug. 18 after swirling internet rumors led to confusion and angst among community members.
“I’ve never in my 22-year career of working here in Sheboygan County, have seen this level of angst and stress,” said Adam Payne, Sheboygan County administrator.
Outside of the Sheboygan County Courthouse on Tuesday, fear over a proposed public health ordinance was felt by protesters. Payne also said he has already received dozens of calls and emails in protests to the ordinance, which was drafted Friday.
“We’re not looking to surprise anybody, we’re not looking to hurt anybody,” Payne said. “We’re looking to protect our community and be prepared if things get worse.”
My favorite part is that the dictator can simply renew the order every 60 days. Did somebody slip some cannabis into the brats?
Cooked the brats in toilet water?
I think that kind of brat cooking will get you in trouble with health department….
How about some “reasonable restrictions”.
A non renewable 60 day limit. If longer restrictions are needed work with the county board to craft something acceptable to the voters.
Quarantines; proper action for enforcing a quarantine order or confiscating property should be thru a court orders. This would preserve peoples due process rights.
Enforcement issues should be handled by the Sheriff;s dept, they have the authority, means, and knowledge to enforce the law.
The county health dept should be providing medical info, but limit medical decisions such as vaccines to doctors on an individual basis.
Love this line ““We’re not looking to surprise anybody, we’re not looking to hurt anybody,” Payne said. “We’re looking to protect our community and be prepared if things get worse.””
We’re not looking to hurt anybody, which is exactly what they are proposin
A number of county health departments and boards have tried to slip in some additional ordinances and powers in the the past few months. I think they have a 100% failure rate, unless their actual goal was to enrage their constituents. They invariably have attempted to defend their actions with phrases like “This ordinance is already enumerated at the State level”. They cannot explain then why they feel its needed at the county level. The real reason is its a power grab and they hoped to slip it in while the population was kept ignorant. Open and Transparent government has protected the residents of these counties.
From ORDINANCE NO. 3: The Sheboygan County Health Officer…
Who, exactly, is the ‘boygan “Health Officer”?
Matthew Strittmater, current HHS director and yet another (see: Andrea Palm) Social Worker?
Or Starrlene Grossman, a registered nurse who took 10 years to get there, a recent U-MN Master of Public Health-Executive Public Health Administration and Policy (paper pushing? What, no virology?) , who’s current 6-month old title is actually “Health Officer”?
From ORDINANCE NO. 3:
(4) No person who is knowingly infected with a communicable disease may willfully violate the recommendations of the local health officer or subject others to danger of contracting the disease. No person may knowingly and willfully take, aid in taking, advise, or cause to be taken, a person who is infected or is suspected of being infected with a communicable disease into any public place or conveyance where the infected person would expose any other person to danger of contracting the disease.
Note that the way this ordinance is written this section falls outside the actual authority given to the so-called “Health Officer”.
This is a forever rule to be obeyed. Got a cold? Well, guess what, Jack. You can’t scoot on over to Walgreens and grab some NyQuil. And your wife/kid/granny can’t drive you there either.
From ORDINANCE NO. 3:
{6) ENFORCEMENT; PENALTY.
(a) Any person who violates or obstructs an order of the Sheboygan
County Hearth officer or the State of Wisconsin Department of Health Services is subject to any Of the following:
Local authorities have no constitutional right to arbitrarily impose fines for non-statutory violations.
Go on, then.
Tell us what sort of powers should be granted in our situation, and what it would look like if they used these powers in a restrained and judicious manner.
Because I’d guess you don’t really want them to have any powers and if they had them you wouldn’t want them to use them.
>I think they have a 100% failure rate, unless their actual goal was to enrage their constituents
I think it’s also good to point out the following facts. Many in the population of each of these counties were upset, suspicious, enraged, fearful of these actions. However at no point were fires set, traffic blocked, rocks thrown, fireworks launched, or paint sprayed. To my knowledge, no one was shot at, no one was pulled from their vehicle and beaten, no stores were looted, heck – no arrests made!.
Just my thoughts on just how different protesting looks between political ideologies…
Continue speculating and changing the subject…
If a cop had arrested any of the objectors and kneeled on their neck until they were dead, what would’ve happened next?
No subject changed. No speculation warranted.
Nothing had been done to them. So why would they be that angry?
“Because I’d guess you don’t really want them to have any powers”
Yep, very true.
One person should not have the power to shut down all businesses in a specific group, like gyms.
An elected board or government perhaps but not1 person.
Jiffy once again proves that he never graduated from law school for a reason. And that his ex- didn’t teach him very well, either.
Dad29, did you intend to say anything beyond the doxxing and bullying?
Mar, and that’s what every county did. They attempted to ask their boards to pass it. They delegated the power to their health officer, as described in the state statutes. And in at least in my county if not others, there was an appeal process set in place, beyond the statutes.
So again, you don’t really want anyone to do anything about the spread of this disease.
The opposition was Trump-ed up by conservative talk radio and QAnon shills. People were literally “fearing” the idea that someone was going to come into their house and take their furniture.
Let’s ask any old person or any informed person about what they did, say, back in the days of polio.
“So again, you don’t really want anyone to do anything about the spread of this disease.”
Now, you are being uncivil and take something out of context.
I said a board, preferably an elected board make the decision as opposed to 1 person. That would make them responsible for their actions as opposed to 1 person making the decision.
Yes, there is a legitimate fear in some areas of the country where politicians and/or medical people made outlandish orders.
Its quite telling how some are flailing around in this discussion when all that has been presented are facts. They suddenly want to talk about why a group of people feel angry, or act like they’re being bullied. And then accuse others of some outrageous claims of not wanting to stop the spread of a disease when they are disagreed with. Childish, twelve year old behavior if you ask me.
Jiffy forgets that some of us have been reading B&S for a very long time. We even remember that Jiffy was banned from this site for some time. Within the last 12 months, someone referred to him as “Foust”–which triggered my memory of actually meeting the guy. (It was not unpleasant.)
Another commenter here told Jiffy’s personal story and mentioned his ex-wife in the process. Suddenly, he’s being “doxxed”? Sorry, Jiffster, that happened years ago. Maybe you don’t remember that……..
Just my thoughts on just how different protesting looks between political ideologies…
Stone Mountain, GA would beg to differ Jason.
The city begs to differ with my thoughts? I highly doubt that. I guess I’m a skeptic.
The city begs to differ with my thoughts? I highly doubt that. I guess I’m a skeptic.
Yup, look at how protesting by right wing groups there went. Also see Kalamazoo.
I disagree. There are many political ideologies, but I doubt either is well represented in the examples I was referring to. Pass.
No worries Jason. Meanwhile, was the angst due to the actual content of the proposed ordinance, or a reaction to fake news?
Payne said a false report that originated on Sheboygan radio earlier this week spread like wildfire online. That false reported included rumors that health officials would mandate a COVID-19 vaccine if one becomes available — something Payne said is “totally false.
Evidence shows it was at least partially due to fake news:
“My health is my responsibility,” and “Vaccine mandates violate bodily autonomy.”
These were some of the messages written on the signs
https://www.sheboyganpress.com/story/news/2020/08/19/sheboygan-county-coronavirus-100-gather-protest-health-ordinance/3400446001/
I wasn’t commenting on Sheboygan’s recent work but in general on other counties that have tried and failed to implement similar ordinances… and as I said many board members have attempted to justify said action by stating its wording that’s in the State regs. Transparently a fabrication in my opinion and apparently many others think so too. As for nations and conspiracy believers, I tend to ignore outliers on all sides.
As for nations and conspiracy believers, I tend to ignore outliers on all sides.
Good to hear. I wish more people of all ideologies did that, including POTUS.
There are people who believe that getting the Chinese virus should be mandatory:
https://www.10news.com/news/local-news/states-have-authority-to-fine-or-jail-people-who-refuse-coronavirus-vaccine-attorney-says
I for one will refuse to get one.
Don’t get a flu shot and won’t get a Chinese virus vaccine. Even if mandatory.
That should be “as for nutjobs and conspiracy…” silly autocorrect.
> I wish more people of all ideologies did that, including POTUS.
And AOC, and Schumer, and Pelosi, right?
Mar, in any county in Wisconsin, there are very few elected positions. There are plenty of appointed positions. Every county already has a health board, and the health officer reports to them, the board probably has a few elected officials on it, and the board reports to the elected county board. Same as anything else the government is enforcing upon you.
You’re grasping at straws.
Gee, I don’t know, jjf, I lived in Milwaukee, Dane, Waukesha and Wood counties in Wisconsin and each of them had county boards who oversaw most of these boards and positions.
Maybe all the other counties are different.
What’s your point? That’s exactly what I said. Pick a county that tried to pass one of these ordinances and explain to me why it doesn’t include enough elected oversight to satisfy you. I bet you could also find some other existing board or officer that wields plenty of power but that has similar structure.
My point remains that Owen’s “only use their power in a restrained and judicious manner” is disingenuous. What he really wants is nothing at all.
Dad29, I think what you’re saying is that someone else doxxed me, too, and now you’re repeating it, so it’s not doxxing, right? You’re saying you didn’t google me, you just relied on the claims of some past anonymous B&S commenter?
And where is that someone now? Oh, they were booted repeatedly for doxxing Owen, also repeatedly, for who knows what bizarre reasons. Maybe just upset because they were booted? Maybe he’s Jason. Can’t tell.
Does the father bear the iniquity of the son, or the son bear the father’s? Shall we hold you to what your former business partners have done since, what your priests have done with the altar boys in the sacristy? Let me guess. That’s just due to the Devil and their personal sins.
And your personal behavior here is modeled after who? Christ? Is this how the sisters taught you to behave? What you pretend to be on Sunday morning and at choir practice?
You come forward again and again to tell us how your personal and political beliefs are superior and based on your religion and its morality… but you don’t want to model that in the way you treat the least of your brothers here?
This last post brought to you by Liberal Privilege.
>What’s your point? That’s exactly what I said. Pick a county that tried to pass one of these ordinances and explain to me why it doesn’t include enough elected oversight to satisfy you.
The common thread on these failed ordinances is that the structure is already enumerated and in place. The only addition to what’s already in place is giving that Heath Department leadership the ability to issue monetary fines. And the boards that tried to pass these tried to gloss over that fact and sneak it in. And the public caught them on it. Good job Public!
Jason, I think every county corp counsel looked at the state statutes and decided their county board should explicitly pass an ordinance clarifying the way they’d implement the existing state statutes. I think that was correct and prudent.
Yes, some counties extended them slightly. For example, to address criticism there was no method of redress of grievances, they created an explicit appeals process.
And this is the way the WisGOP said it should be done… pass it back to local control. And then they winked and unleashed the “they’re going to inspect your house and confiscate your couch” propaganda.
>And then they winked and unleashed the “they’re going to inspect your house and confiscate your couch” propaganda.
And I think that the fact you have latched on to that point just shows you’re using it to reinforce your bias against the GOP. You’ve brought it up a few times now, which is really just a snarky way to dismiss valid concerns brought by the public. It’s telling how disparaging you are about people when they don’t agree with your narrative.
And AOC, and Schumer, and Pelosi, right?
Which conspiracy theories (or conspiracy theorists) have they embraced? If they have, as POTUS has, they are doing the same thing POTUS is and should be equally chastised.
Jason, I think it’s perfectly valid to have a process by which laws or ordinances are proposed, discussed, and voted up or down. In this situation, the proposed county ordinances were practically copy-pasted from the state statutes that have been there for decades.
So where’s the WisGOP call to erase the old statutes? They didn’t care.
The WisGOP just wanted the ol’ divide and conquer. Cancel the state lockdown extension, say the local authorities can handle it, then attack on that front with gasoline poured into the talk-radio machine, sprinkle it with QAnon and anti-vax, get ’em all riled up to oppose the county ordinances… and do nothing at all about the existing actual law. No leavening with some “restrained and judicious” position.
Sure, tell me how they’re concerned with governmental power.
I read and listened to the people who opposed the county ordinances. Many people made the claim there would be door to door searches. I heard claims that people would be hauled away in boxcars like the Nazis did. That they’d be inspecting the cleanliness of homes, that they could take your couch. Search for yourself, look at the Facebook comments.
I saw no middle positions, no suggestions for what would be “restrained and judicious.” It was all Nazis and eagles and the Constitution and government hoaxes.
Gee, Jiffy, you can sure do a great Mommy-lecture act!
You used your own name way back when on this (or another) blog. IOW, you “doxxed” yourself.
What are you worried about? Republican voters fire-bombing your home? Threatening your children? Boycotting your IT non-database services? Has that happened to you?
As to Health Commissar ordinances: perhaps you can demonstrate a real need for them, but we haven’t seen you do so yet. You keep yapping about polio which relied on parental common sense, as did TB before that. People self-quarantined and then the Sheriff posted a note on their door. In a few cases, the Sheriff had to get a bit more ……ahhh……emphatic. So what?
Regardless of qualifications, there’s no crisis now which earns a bureaucrat some enforcement powers. Every County has a Sheriff. And as Owen mentioned a few months back, they can be rude, offensive, overly aggressive, and hobnail-booted, too. I’m sure that’s exactly what you want, no?
>Which conspiracy theories (or conspiracy theorists) have they embraced?
Dejoy and Trump are trying to steal an election :)
>I read and listened to the people who opposed the county ordinances. Many people made the claim there would be door to door searches. I heard claims that people would be hauled away in boxcars like the Nazis did. That they’d be inspecting the cleanliness of homes, that they could take your couch. Search for yourself, look at the Facebook comments.
>I saw no middle positions, no suggestions for what would be “restrained and judicious.” It was all Nazis and eagles and the Constitution and government hoaxes.
Those are examples of you issues, and do not change, modify, nullify, or address the points I’ve already made.
>The WisGOP just wanted the ol’ divide and conquer. Cancel the state lockdown extension, say the local authorities can handle it, then attack on that front with gasoline poured into the talk-radio machine, sprinkle it with QAnon and anti-vax, get ’em all riled up to oppose the county ordinances… and do nothing at all about the existing actual law. No leavening with some “restrained and judicious” position.
Ironic that’s the words you wrote are so earily similar to vast conspiracy claims you attribute to most “Trumpers”. I hope you can see the bigger picture on how ironic that paragraph of yours really is. But since you can’t grasp what Tuerqas is writing in another discussion, I’m not holding my breath.
Dad29, the old “what are you worried about” argument seems a bit hypocritical if you’re simultaneously protective of your own info being out there. If you’re so quiet, what are you worried about?
Revealing my name at some point in the past isn’t “doxxing.” Finding personal details – yes, like tracking down children’s names – and then ridiculing what you find – yeah, that’s malicious.
I maintain that anonymity makes for poor behavior in the long run.
Har, har. You think I don’t know from databases?
So, jjf, then you would agree all doxxing is bad, even when done by liberals?
I would also hope that you agree that protesting at a person’s home is also in bad taste, because that is also a form of doxxing.
Jason, I’m ready to hear any explanation you have for how these crowds got their info about these ordinances. If you think I’m wrong, inform me.
Explain how county board meetings that rarely have even five public commenters, now have five hundred showing up.
You think WisGOP talk-radio wasn’t involved? Facebook groups launching conspiracies and outlandish what-ifs like Nazi boxcars and confiscated couches?
“Explain how county board meetings that rarely have even five public commenters, now have five hundred showing up.”
So, that’s a bad thing, getting people involved in local government?
And who cares how they get their information.
>Jason, I’m ready to hear any explanation you have for how these crowds got their info about these ordinances.
Pass.
>If you think I’m wrong, inform me.
I think you’re “cherry picking” some information, and attributing it to everyone in this scenario, which is your own words is many many people. That’s wrong, you’ve just been informed.
>Explain how county board meetings that rarely have even five public commenters, now have five hundred showing up.
Because the people showing up do not want to see their local government empower themselves more in the name of this virus. The excuse from the boards didn’t wash, so they came to voice their disagreement. Good for them.
>You think WisGOP talk-radio wasn’t involved? Facebook groups launching conspiracies and outlandish what-ifs like Nazi boxcars and confiscated couches?
I don’t really know, or care in general terms. I know that in my county there wasn’t any of that. A few people circulated the text of the ordinance, and The People showed up to disagree. Guess what, the vote failed. I never saw anyone say anything about a couch, or home cleanliness. Sorry you disagree with that, again it’s a YOU issue, and I’m not in the business of helping you with you. There are professionals that can do that.
Jason, I’m ready to hear any explanation you have for how these crowds got their info about these ordinances.
I can answer that. It was via radio station WHBL. Want to guess what programming they feature?
Randall, so what, who cares?
>I can answer that. It was via radio station WHBL.
Sorry, factually incorrect. That station does not cover several of the counties I was referring to. Now, it might be that it was A source of information for SOME of the crowds at Sheboygan, but I strongly doubt it at others.
Kids are strictly out of bounds.
Are you going to respond to the questions I raised, or are you too busy being sorry for yourself?
Dad29 – what am I worried about? Yes, there are plenty of people who like being anonymous bullies in real life, too. I’ve had plenty of hate mail, nuisance phone calls, face-to-face harassment, anonymous property damage, etc. in real life, too. What will the next one do?
As for boycotts of my business, some people (intermediaries, people who are playing both sides, generally ones who are sucking up to those in power) who want me to stop doing something political do generally make that semi-threat / polite warning. “Don’t you think it’ll affect your business?” And my answer is no. I still have plenty of business.
Most sheriffs are just fine. Yes, some can be too full of themselves and collect power. Even conservatives should be concerned with that… but as we’ve seen, the GOP sure knows how to look the other way when they think the offender might do other things they like.
Which question did I miss?
Doesn’t have a question mark so you didn’t see it as a question. OK, then, to help you out, let’s call it an ‘issue.’
Now go ahead, Jiffy, demonstrate a real need NOT covered by a Sheriff or local PD.
Dad29, if only the pitchfork mob would’ve said something like that…. but they didn’t, not that I ever heard.
Who assesses the “real need?” The county health officer? And then any emphatic enforcement gets turned over to the sheriff, who delegates it to a deputy?
> pitchfork mob
The only pitchfork mobs with poor communication skills are the ones rioting in the inner cities… not Wisconsin county board meetings. I already pointed out the differences between those two groups in this discussion. Randall tried to take up some discussion on it, but failed.
Until you can be honest in your wording, you’ll continue to be dismissed.
So, I guess jjf believes doxxing is ok, especially when done by liberals.
And going to someone’s home is also is ok with jjf.
So dox jjf. He supports it.
Not that I would, but hey maybe since jjf is inviting it, go ahead.
He’ll love the attention.
mar,
Yet jjf will not let me dox him….
Go on, Mar. Show me where I said that. Show me the connections.
You exaggerate to attract attention to yourself.
“Go on, Mar. Show me where I said that. Show me the connections.”
I asked a very simple question, do you disown all doxxing, even when it is done by liberals?
Do you support protestors/thugs who go to people’s houses and start telling and screaming, which is a form of doxxing.
And you remain silent.
Since you support groups that do doxxing, I can only come to one conclusion: When liberals do the doxxing, it’s ok.
When someone does it to you, then you cry about it.
Crab-walking like an annoying fruit-fly. Not responsive again.
Mar, here’s the Oxford;
Just so we’re all on the same page of the dictionary.
Dad29, I think your question is entirely reasonable. Who is given what powers in which circumstances. And again, if you can’t imagine anything needing to be done in the pandemic, if cheering death is all we should do, then there’s little to discuss, right? We have dogcatchers and parking cops and CHIPS cases and USPS officers with arrest powers, all sorts of people have powers.
,.,.,.,.,.,.he rattles on without answering the question…….what a loser.
Your accusations are Naturally UN-founded, Dad29.
>search for and publish private or identifying information about (a particular individual) on
Interesting. You’ve accused me of doxxing you in the past… tell me what private or identifying information is that? Please try to remember, you’ve shared your name with us in the past, so John J Foust is not private any more.
We could debate about what you’ve said and where you think you found it… or we can talk about your intent. What’s your intent? Malicious and bullying or friendly and helpful?
If its public information, then why does intent matter? It doesn’t fit the definition.
I asked you about your intent. It is literally in the dictionary definition. What’s so difficult? Face the facts. Admit your bullying intent. I’ve picked the handle “jjf” here, just as you picked “Jason.” Why do you go beyond that?
Still, jjf, you still have denounced doxxing.
What a shame.
Personally, I find it disgusting.
Too bad you don’t.
Mar, apparently we can’t even agree what doxxing is.
There’s protesting a public official – certainly goes in a free speech direction. Where is the protester’s intent? What crosses the line, what doesn’t? Can an investigative reporter go through their garbage?