I was amused and disgusted by this letter to the editor in the Washington County Daily News criticizing my most recent column about the illegal mask mandate:
2. You right-wing constitutional proponents think that you are so righteous defending the Constitution against Evers’ “illegal” orders, but PEOPLE ARE DYING!!!
You, Trump, Sen. Scott Fitzgerald and Rep. Robin Vos, although you might have the “Constitution” on your side legally, are criminally negligent because you have no effective program to stop the pandemic.
So… people are dying so we should just ignore the Constitution and the law? That’s a very disturbing argument that quickly leads to totalitarianism. People like this really live in America.
So, what price do we pay to uphold the constitution? This isn’t a war time scenario, it is public health, any many of the deaths, past and in the future due to coronavirus were/are preventable. Come on , what price do we pay?
Apologies “any” shouldn’t be there.
Worse–some of them vote.
There are lots of car fatalities, black-on-black killings, and good old-fashioned Asian flu deaths. Then there are coronaries, pneumonias–a lot of which are the REAL WuFlu death-causes–and AIDS.
So offhand, its clear: ban autos, force everyone to remain inside their homes to prevent spread of Asian flu, AIDS, and black-on-black killings.
Anything else, LeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeRoy?
– People like this really live in America.
Well, yeah, and you need not look further than your own comments section. People like this lounge around B&S all day everyday spewing the same nonsense. They don’t like your flavor of koolaid, but they can’t get enough of their own poison.
Leroy, you ask;
What price do we pay to uphold the constitution?
Constitutional limitations on our government are not optional. We either have a governor that respects those limitations, or we have a rogue demagogue.
Why can the governor overrule the entire legislature in this matter? He is given 60 days to address an emergency, but must the work with the rest of our state government to manage a crisis. Our government is set up this way so one person can’t rule, but has to govern.
Mike:
As dud had pointed out on another thread, the legislature has declined the opportunity to be proactive in regards to coronavirus.
Sadly, many liberals, like Le Roi here, don’t give a crap about the Constitution or the rule of law.
If they don’t get their way or if they think they know better than you, well , Constitution be damned.
That does not give the governor the power to extend his emergency declaration. The last time he did this the court ruled extensions of his emergency powers is unconstitutional. This ruling would also apply to any future extensions. Now it is time for the justice department to step up and enforce the rule of law as legislated and affirmed by the court.
>So, what price do we pay to uphold the constitution? This isn’t a war time scenario, it is public health, any many of the deaths, past and in the future due to coronavirus were/are preventable. Come on , what price do we pay?
Le Roi du Nord (being respectful here because I want to have a real discussion on this)..
Can you define or quantify what price is ok, and what price is too much?
People die every year traveling freely between states That is ok? Why?
People die every year from guns. That is ok? Why?
People die every year from influenza and have for decades. No mask has ever been mandated at a state level before? Why is that ok and this is not?
Where exactly is the line? Detail that, codify it into an easily read paragraph and I think we all can then talk. Until then, sorry, you don’t have a logical argument.
Jason, when I brought this up, where are the limits and the risks associated with the virus, when the Chinese virus was just starting, jjf and Le Roi ridiculed me to end saying that I was just so heartless. I also stated there were risks in everything we do and Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum just mocked me.
They wanted an indefinite lockdown, even to this day. They said we should be locked down until there was a vaccine or cure.
Maybe and hopefully Le Roi changed his position now.
Jason, where’s your line? Is there any sort of pandemic that would cross that line to allow, oh, something as awful as a mask mandate? 100% fatal? 50%? 10%?
Your argument is that “people are always dying, why worry about this?” isn’t the strongest I’ve ever heard.
I don’t know if anyone else wants to put in their line for interpretation, but I think they should before they enter the ‘serious’ conversation. It is easy to pick at the edges of anyone’s line’ when you haven’t defined your own. I’ll be first, sure, this is just a rough feeling:
This is a virus, we are not just mitigating the spread by shutting down the economy, wearing masks and practicing social distancing, we are prolonging the epidemic and lethality (A pandemic spreads across an entire country or world, slowing it down as we have has robbed it of the pandemic label;) hasn’t it?). As antibodies are amassed from recoveries so drops the lethality of any virus. It doesn’t make sense for everyone to hide, Sweden’s way was the best way.
People that are most vulnerable and their paid caregivers need the most protection. It does make perfect sense for high risk people or anyone who so chooses to practice whatever measures they deem prudent to protect themselves or the people they must work close to. It does not make sense to chrysalize everyone to save a vulnerable minority. It is a common contention between liberals and conservatives. I do not believe we need to teach to the lowest denominator so that everyone is reached a little, but nobody is taught properly. It makes no sense to require iron miners to wear haz-mat suits when they do not use dangerous chemicals to mine iron. It makes no sense to put up a street light out in the country because there was an accident there once or twice. And it certainly makes no sense to close tens of thousands of livelihoods causing poverty and hardship for many to save some lives from a communicable sickness. Hunger and privation cause long term sickness and slow death, why is that preferable?
As long as Governments actively make and modify diseases, I certainly do not want them able to take control and/or destroy my life because of one. Disaster relief? That is under the aegis of a beneficent Government and I am grateful. Disaster prevention over freedom protection? That is beyond what our Government is upheld for under the constitution. People die every day from a myriad of preventable causes, we either break our hearts over and over until we commit suicide from depression or we realize it happens, sympathize and go on with our lives.
Only respond with agreement or by putting forth your objections WITH your own belief and evidence to correct me.
Nord exposed for tyrant he is right out of the gate.
Tell us Le Roi, how were the deaths preventable and in in the future, how will the deaths be preventable, short of locking everyone in a 1 person cell?
He didn’t “extend.” He created a new one.
Ironically, when the WI shutdown order was lifted, someone here predicted that this was going to make the Republicans look bad.
Deaths are really the only meaningful metric – lots of people get the virus without having symptoms, feeling ill, needing to be treated, or dying.
WI is currently at 216 deaths per million, for a total of 1251. The USA number is 624 deaths per million. At 624 deaths per million, WI would be at 3619. So WI has “underperformed” the USA metric by 2368 deaths. One could say that the Republican’s efforts at ending the shutdown early saved 2368 lives – certainly did not result in more lives lost. That is what you call “winning”.
At WI current 7-day moving average of deaths per day (4), it would take 85 weeks to catch up to the USA deaths per million number. Most days of late, the 7-day moving average has been 7 per day – at that rate it would take 48 weeks to reach the average. Again, that could be called “winning”.
And that is how the media “rigs” the dialog. Reporting “most number of cases ever in one day”, when 7-day moving average smooths out the ups & downs, or that WI is in the top 7 states of new cases per week sounds more alarmist than taking a look at the real impact of the virus in this state.
Sweden is currently at 581 deaths per million, but now their 7-day moving average is 1 per day. But what happened is they let the virus run up to a tall peak. WI has seen several lower peaks. Instead of having a rapid burn (like Sweden), it is kind of a slow burn that never quite ends.
As Andrew Sullivan (early survivor of the AIDS epidemic) wrote awhile ago, it might be better to plow right through it headfirst instead of trying to drive around it.
Would you say that about an attacking army? Let ’em roll over us, most of us will live through it, they’ll leave eventually?
Or would you say there’s something we can do, we can fight, we can join together, we can endure a few deprivations to oppose them?
Yes, exactly, Tuerqas. Shutdowns and masks and sanitizer rob the pandemic of its lethality. A vaccine would help, too.
Anyone care to explain where their line is? When if ever can we have government mandates that affect your freedoms? It’s not as if our government hasn’t placed mandates and deprivations on us before. Why were other deprivations OK? All the security theater of Homeland Security?
It doesn’t surprise me that a libertarian can’t answer. I would’ve been more pleased with a “well, eventually society would develop private insurance and private police protection, and eventually the two would become almost one, and most people would be required by the policies of their private contracts to not infect others, lest the company incur additional costs from being sued in the private courts most of us had agreed to.”
So where’s your line? Some threats are real, some aren’t?
The draft and rationing of WWII were just part of the “good ol’ days” of the greatest generation, right?
I think we’re all waiting for your line, jjf. You haven’t offered a comprehensive thought like Tuergas. Care to share?
We’re still waiting for Leroy’s too. He’s been active and yet avoiding this… I wonder why? My guess is it’s easier to bitch and whine than to actually take a stand… especially when one is as arrogant as he.
In addition, the number of people with negative test results includes only test results reported electronically to DHS or entered manually into the WEDSS electronic laboratory module. As a result, this number underestimates the total number of Wisconsin residents with negative test results. – WDHS
Once you understand just how skewed and screwed the so-called “data” is, and how nEvers’ health “experts” present the data to the public (read: YOU GONNA DIEEEEE!) discussions of lines to draw or prices to pay are discussions of irrelevancy.
On that same day, Sep. 15th, DHS recorded the [positive] rate as 11%. That was calculated by comparing 1,352 new cases to 12,266 new people tested. However, there were almost 20,000 tests collected that day. If DHS compared that day’s number of positive tests to the total number of test results, the rate would have been much lower – possibly as low as 6.7%. They’ve been making this same mistake since the spring.
This systematic error means DHS is tossing hundreds of thousands of negative test results when calculating the positive test rate. –McIiver Institute
Three days later, on 9/18, the day the LeftStream media shouted “RECORD CASE COUNT!!!” WDHS reported 2,533 new positive and 12,205 negative. Yet 30,281 tests were collected.
So, where did the other 15,543 tests go?
>Once you understand just how skewed and screwed the so-called “data” is, and how nEvers’ health “experts” present the data to the public (read: YOU GONNA DIEEEEE!) discussions of lines to draw or prices to pay are discussions of irrelevancy
Fousty Pants will use his Occam’s Broom to ignore that fact, just like he has regarding people who have died of gun shot wounds being marked as Covid deaths because they tested positive post death. And people already in Hospice with terminal diagnoses. And people in fatal car accidents.
Sweep away Foust… it’s what you do!
Mumbles from all sides, oh, we can’t do that, we can’t close down, we can’t wear masks, freedom! And I ask a simple question… where’s your line? And no one can answer.
When would it be OK for the government to require you to wear a mask in public? Some level of deaths, some level of fatality? This pandemic isn’t serious enough for you, you want something stronger before you’d require a mask?
Yeah, I think it’s OK for a state-level mask mandate now, based on infection rates and the consequent harm to so many. Isn’t it clear I know where my line is and that so many others here aren’t willing to say where their line is? If you think there should be no line, step up, tell us why.
> based on infection rates and the consequent harm to so many.
Quiet, does anyone else hear a broom sweeping?
jjf brings up WWII. You mean when they jailed all the Japanese and took their property.
Good suggestion, jjf.
You ask for a line and here is mine: When hospitals are unable to care for the sick.
That level was never met. Close but
never met.
And not even close now.
Mar, does that include the 10 million dollar set of beds they installed at State Fair Park? LOL
Jason, yes, the Navy hospital ships, other field hospitals.
Plus all the extra respirators that were built and then sent overseas.
All the federal medical personnel that were sent to help out local hospitals,testing centers and nursing homes.
Plus supplying medicines and testing materials.
Something our local liberals won’t acknowledge.
Here’s my line on masks… there may be a time when government mandating masks is necessary and prudent. Perhaps with a death rate of 10%+ in a disease that is easily communicable. I’m open to discussion on that. But the line is to be determined after debate among our duly elected representatives and implemented as a law under our normal constitutional process. This is, as they chant, what democracy looks like.
At no time should a mask mandate be implemented by executive order. Ever. Not by Trump. Not by Evers. Not by Mayor Whatshisface. Not by County Executive Jackwagon. We should not abandon representative government and our constitutional strictures on the whim of a frustrated executive.
>Something our local liberals won’t acknowledge.
They’re busy sweeping those facts under the rug.
Hey Owen, did you see Ever’s today on the “daily Covid talkshow”? He was wearing his mask properly today… straps up over the ears, edges down under the glasses… He must visit here, and he must ignore John Foust, just like us!
A fine explanation, Owen. Thank you. 10% death rate. Literal decimation.
Less than a half-million dead in Wisconsin, eh, not worth a mask mandate.
And Troll jjf strikes again.
If you want to be like him you should like to the Wiki definition of “Troll”. It really makes your reply that much more smug.
A line on masks is the gauge of your view on COVID, jjf? The line is simple for me on masks as they have not proven to be more than a 3% improvement and then only if worn by the infected, no: No Government mandates at all. The 6′ social distancing and shutting down the State ‘helped’ against the virus even as it hurt many uninfected people. I am helping my second friend of the summer move out of his house from his Government mandated job loss on Saturday. If I had to draw a line on masks, it would be for requiring those infected and those exposed to the infected to wear them for the duration of their sickness or quarantine time.
I was talking more about the bigger picture in my last comment. You and other liberals like the one concerning this article always cry about deaths and try to blame it on rep/cons, but the entirely Dem run city of NYC didn’t seem to know what they were doing either. Blame Trump or Evers? The only thing I blame them for is trying to run my life even more than they already do during the crisis.
Where is your line on Government control concerning an epidemic? I think it is zero, personally, though I can respect Mar’s ‘when hospitals can no longer handle the problem’ line. How many deaths are acceptable to you? How do you think a Hillary run Government would have handled it better? Would they have shut down the country immediately and for longer? Is that what should have happened? Should we have granted emergency martial law powers to Fauci? Libs and their commercials go on about how Trump failed, but I would argue that there was never even any discussion on whether they should interfere or not in the first place. React to disaster, yes. Try to prevent a disaster that few can even agree on the nature of and then what bounds there should be on Gov’t powers to force compliance? No. Not ever. Where is your line on how much power Government should have for a health issue?
Now giving them power after a bio attack from another country? Different story, but there would have to be public announcements to that effect by said Gov’t before any orders get issued.
Mar, how does a pandemic even work? Is it a mystery? Does history and science have nothing to say about it, no predictive value?
If your hospital is full this week, what’ll it be like next week?
If you have a pond with one duckweed on it, and the duckweed can double every day, on which day is the pond half-full of duckweed?
And what does this mean for your suggestion?
Tuerqas, masks slow a daily growth rate. How does that help?
Meanwhile we have hoards of dinguses who think it’s fun and cool to not wear their masks and to not distance. What does that do for our daily growth rate?
How many people are eager to blame masks for the growth rate caused by the deniers?
Well, you for one, that is clear. Burying 5/6 of the people in the ground will also slow the growth rate way more, but I am not jumping on that train either. If you believe the smart people stay home and when going out wear masks, there will be more smart people when the threat is declared over, if ever. Who can complain about that result?
To clarify (cuz I was not clear, I see) you are blaming the lack of masks. I may have misinterpreted because nobody is blaming wearing masks for a faster growth rate, that would be ridiculous (they are poo-pooing masks as being an ineffective waste of time and resource).
I assumed you meant people like you were blaming the lack of masks for a higher daily growth rate. Make sense? Hey it was your statement, you clarify it:).
You are seriously suggesting a eugenic benefit? Nah, the virus doesn’t care if you’re smart or not.
Its Trending
But it’s not hard to find people who look at the latest numbers and taunt that masks don’t seem to be helping. Where does that correlation and causation come from? And it’s often people who are hedging by saying “oh, I wear a mask” so as not to appear a complete fool.
Owen likes 10% death rate. I’ll go with 8%, but honestly calculated, unlike our current “high-speed lead but really Covid” system.
Today it appears that hospitalizations are up in Wisconsin, but the daily-death line is on a serious down-slope. The death line is likely due to the age of the new positive tests (almost all college kids). Not so easy to ‘splain hospital admits, because hospitals don’t release almost any specifics about their patients.
In about 20 years, Jiffy will stop playing Soe Crates and come up with a line. Give him credit for showing up–unlike the Little Northern Dictator/Concrete Artist/Clerk-Typist/Forest Manager/Sharpshooter ol’ Frenchy.
It’s not hard to find a video of a woman sitting outside with her family, socially distant from everyone else, getting tasered by an officer for not wearing a mask.
Tasered and arrested for not wearing a mask… clearly distant from other people… outside… in Ohio.
But that’s to flatten the curve, right Foust? My forecast on this outcome is that Foust and Leroy will not respond to this.. in any way… and if they do it’s to be smugly superior in every way. Tasered… for not wearing a mask outdoors socially distant from others.
Notice how Foust has responded many times in this thread… and has not touched MjM’s comment @ 10:42 AM. Not an acknowledgement, not a question as to the facts… NOTHING.
SWEEP IT AWAY FOUSTY…. You’re now Occam’s broom bitch.
Looks like the liberals here have nothing.
Just trolls.
Uneducated trolls.
Hypocritical trolls.
Don’t talk about evolution here. k will go into spasms of denial, then resort to spewing some religious nonsense to make excuses.
Hey Le Roi, still waiting for your answer as to how to Chinese virus deaths were preventable.
I’ll wait.
Because you have nothing.
Like your hateful Senile brain, it has nothing.
Nothing but an uneducated hateful lying troll, Le Roi is.
So, now people are being arrested in Idaho for not wearing a mask.
https://dnews.com/coronavirus/candidate-arrested-at-downtown-event/article_904c69bb-1ef9-5cd5-8eab-93f739108d08.html
Idaho.
Seriously.
City run by a liberal.
Liberalism is a mental illness.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/public-health-expert-says-zero-doubt-most-u-s-virus-deaths-were-avoidable
Seems to me to be a ridiculous statement (Reducing our death toll by 99%) and unrealistic. A stereotypically academic response. Teachers and faculty have lived in their own bubbles for so long the grip on reality is slim at best. They work, they get paid. They don’t work, they get paid. It doesn’t work like that, but people judge others after their own hearts. When most others don’t work, they don’t get paid. If the academics needed money to feed their families, I doubt they would be harping the same tune.
And as a few notes, the countries with the lowest percentage of deaths are all islands or African countries that have no national health orgs to start with or Islamic countries with no interest in telling the world about any weakness they might have so I would hesitate to believe stats from either source. The best is the island of Singapore at a reported rate of .05%. A 99% reduction in American deaths would put us at a rate .0003, or more than two orders of magnitude lower than the lowest in the world. So which countries we should be modelling gets us two orders of magnitude or more better than they got themselves? Lastly, the largest cities in RI are 80k and 70k, the only two over 42k. COVID has struck harder in the larger cities. CA has 8 cities larger than the entire population of RI and she wants to compare how her little low population density state should be the model for the country? Reality (and truth) is not a high priority among academics.
>https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/public-health-expert-says-zero-doubt-most-u-s-virus-deaths-were-avoidable
Does this “Expert” also lose sleep over all the Influenza deaths over the years? Or does he not care about those? Still awaiting your line Leroy.
No, she loses sleep over Trump winning again. The phrase “Say anything” comes to mind.
1000+ medical professionals signed the letter. As opposed to a failed casino owner making up nonsense nonstop. If it was 99%, or 1% were preventable, it is all on his shoulders and those of his enablers. Give credit, or place blame, where it is due.
>As opposed to a failed casino owner making up nonsense nonstop. If it was 99%, or 1% were preventable, it is all on his shoulders and those of his enablers. Give credit, or place blame, where it is due
You should contact those 1000 medical professionals, because they didn’t send it to Trump and they didn’t address Trump. You’re so much smarter than them…
j:
I never claimed they did.
You implied it when you wrote this.
>it is all on his shoulders and those of his enablers. Give credit, or place blame, where it is due.
1000+ medical signed something….
Whooppeeee!!!!
Out of how many millions of medical works on Earth?
99% reduction? Take out NY,NJ, CT, and MA. That’s most of it. But T’s right: there is no way in Hell to get to .003 no matter how many “medical professionals” (900 bed-pan changers??) sign a letter
No j, you assumed it.
All of this seems academic. The Republicans need only convene long enough to vote the latest order down, with a veto-proof majority.
jed:
So true.
Actually, they only need a simple majority. It would not be subject to a veto. But you are correct and I wish the GOP would do so.
But then we have parents that do this:
https://www.fox6now.com/news/kids-knowingly-sent-to-school-with-covid-19-health-director-says
The worst are the people, eager to oppose masks and well-aware of people defying the order and not distancing, see the ever-increasing numbers and then say “it seems like masks aren’t working.”
Man’s Best Friend
Le ROI, parents send their kids to school with all sorts of illnesses. Have been doing it for decades, if not centuries.
And jjf, there is no evidence masks work, just theories.
MjM, cool story.
WDHS Sept 25: 2,040 Postive, 10,720 Negative, 28,011 Tests Collected
15,251 tests missing.
Gee, how is that mask mandate going in Wisconsin?
Seems like Wisconsin has one of the highest rate of infections.
Yep, those mask mandates really work.
Mar, such deliberate obfuscation.
You are eager to oppose masks and are well-aware of people defying the mask order and not distancing, and you see the ever-increasing numbers and then say “it seems like masks aren’t working.”
Such logic. All the blame goes on the masks, none goes on the people who are doing nothing.
>All the blame goes on the masks, none goes on the people who are doing nothing.
And you do exactly the opposite… such deliberate obfuscation from you Foust. Such lack of logic.
Run with it, Jason. Show me the correlation. Which action caused which result?
>Run with it, Jason. Show me the correlation. Which action caused which result?
Why don’t you? You’re the one making the claim that Mar is “deliberately obfuscating” your myopic view… yet you have offered nothing to support that.
jjf, mask mandates do not work and there is no evidence it is caused by people not wearing mask is the problem.
But that is the popular narrative by liberals who demand people wear masks everywhere. But there is no evidence that masks work, at least most face coverings don’t work.
Expert epidemiology there, Mar. Trust the science, but deny how the virus spreads and throw up your hands when the hospitals are full.
I don’t trust the science jjf. I’ve been saying that since this virus started and I’ve been proven right way more times than being wrong.
Do you think the mask mandate filled the hospitals in Wausau and Green Bay?
Nope
I should have said that no, the mask mandate did not have anything to do with the spike. The spike would have happened whether people wore masks or not.
>Do you think the mask mandate filled the hospitals in Wausau and Green Bay?
Do you think the “non mask wearers” did? Do you have any numbers of these people? Or are they just nebulous shadow people that you never see hiding behind your computer? Have you been out? I have, and I don’t see many people not wearing masks, almost no one, no matter where I go. I think it’s just convenient for you to say it’s due to “the people who are doing nothing.”
Maybe you’re in the big city. In the real heart of ‘Merica where I live, there are plenty of people who are cheerfully taking their mask off once they step inside the Walmart, because what are the employees going to do to them? And who aren’t wearing one at the bar or restaurant.
That is right jjf. People are sick and tired of wearing a mask for no good reason.
And I don’t even wear a mask in Walmart. They stopped enforcing it here.
CDC joins New England Journal of Medicine: masks are useless. Transmission, IF IT OCCURS, is only by close personal contact for more than 10 minutes.
Don’t forget the NYT story admitting that “positive tests” are overly sensitive; somewhere between 50-90% are FALSE positives.
Altogether, “teh scienzzzz” of Tin-Pot Tony fails. Badly.
And jjf, it is hard to drink and eat while at a bar at a restaurant.
>there are plenty of people who are cheerfully taking their mask off once they step inside the Walmart
Wow, I’m just amazed at how scientific you base your views on. You should be working at the WHO or the CDC with those concrete statistical observations you have. You set the bar so very high on refuting other people’s opinions, you really do.
Dad your points are invalid, because John Foust sees people taking masks off once they enter Walmart. I always figured he worked as a 1099 at Geek Squad, guess he’s really a Walmart greeter.
Mar! Jason’s making fun of Walmart greeters!
> Jason’s making fun of Walmart greeters!
No, I didn’t. You really look like an idiot when you’re trying to do this Foust… and a real turd of a human.
Who do you trust, the actual medical professionals, or the anti-maskers?
https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/2020/09/28/wisconsin-coronavirus-green-bay-fox-valley-outbreaks-worsen/3562169001/
Le ROI, I trust my own judgement and don’t leave it to doctors or anti-maskers to tell me what I have to do, as it should be.
Yes, there are so many outbreaks of the Chinese virus that connected directly to Walmart.
I saw maybe 1 or 2 cases where Walmart can be directly blamed.
Out of how many Walmarts world wide?
Thanks goodness you live in AZ, we folks in WI don’t need to be concerned about your “judgement”.
And then there are folks like this who endanger others:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/09/28/kewaskum-youth-football-coach-fired-exposing-players-covid-19/3568560001/
Thank goodness you don’t live down here, Le Roi. You actually need a set a balls to live here. Most people are not sheeple like you.
Weak knee liberals do not do good here.
>And then there are folks like this who endanger others:
Yes, hope he’s prosecuted.
Mar – Woolly sweaty balls? Really? Is this some kind of parody site?
Jason – Prosecuted for what, exactly?
One month before the election, I trust nothing that is being used as a political election tool. There is a simple mathematical formula for it:
Democrat=”(insert field here)-Professionals” and Republican=”anti-(insert latest Dem label for Reps)”. If it has this formula in one form or another, it is likely all crap.
And you should be skeptical as well Le Roi. Seriously, your first link went to a ‘medical professional’ who thought it was a good and reasonable idea to apply Rhode Island and other unnamed anti-covid country measures to the rest of the US.
So T, you think the MD’s in Green Bay, a pretty conservative area, are using the packed hospitals as a political election tool? I’m sure they will vehemently disagree with you.
It’s a conspiracy, Le Roi! They’re just packing the hospitals to make more money! They hadn’t thought of any way to make money in health care until COVID came along.
And if their hospital is packed, then they will find another hospital that is not packed.
Same old false story but believed by Chicken Littles.
Mar, such logic! And if one hospital is full, that’s irrelevant, right?
Pretty much, jjf. Just like you
That’s what you’re saying, Mar. If a hospital is packed, it doesn’t really matter.
Yes, jjf, and the hospitals are not packed or at capacity, if you bothered to read the article.
Yes, if one hospital is at capacity. Then other hospitals will pick up the other patients.
You may know computers but you don’t know health care.
But keep on going, Chicken Little, you are quite funny.
Are you suggesting that we have a Constitutional right to yell “Fire!!” in a crowded theatre when there isn’t actually a fire, even if people get hurt and/or die from the panic that occurs? And are you saying that laws which prohibit such behavior is nothing more than totalitarianism?
Please clarify…thanks
“And are you saying that laws which prohibit such behavior is nothing more than totalitarianism?”
Where you are wrong with your statement, penguin, is the word “laws”.
Most of the lockdowns, mandates, emergency declarations are usually done by 1 person, be it a governor, mayor, county executive etc. Very few laws were passed.
How is that relevant to my comment? Is some ‘Professional’ trying to use Green Bay as a model of what to do or not to do? Did a ‘Professional’ from Green Bay take a mike and say something like ‘Trump failures are why Green Bay’s hospitals are full right now?
Taken as a segue comment to mine, I would name your comment wrong. If given an opportunity, virtually every Democrat medical professional in Green Bay would use the full hospitals as an election tool, specifically as an indictment of a Trump failure.
I repeat, no portion of the US Gov’t has ever had a publicized action plan to prevent a communicable disease save as a response team, nor have they been expected to. As such, any President (and the rest of Gov’t officials) we have ever had in our history would have been called a failure by a group who actually expected Government to defend them from a ‘naturally occurring’ virus. This group can easily be identified to, as followers of the Party not currently in power.
The Dems harp on Trump as having failed America as if they would have done one lick better. That wouldn’t have. There is zero correlation between red states doing better against the corona virus than blue states. In fact, blue states would win that statistical battle, not because they were more prepared or reacted faster, but simply because Reps control more of the rural states that are naturally socially distant. Dems running on a Trump failure to protect Americans from a virus is one of the most falsified strategies yet in a world of horribly falsified election stratagems, and everyone should see that. You can say masks this and shutdown that all you want, but Trump did not fail to set in motion any prepared plan, there was none. There were no mask factories for making billions of masks a month 8 months ago. There were enough for the Professionals that used them on a daily basis. And shocker of shockers, China is the primary mask provider to the world.
Police man saying “stop” isn’t issuing a law either, but the penalty for ignoring that order could be instant death.
Fact of the matter is that we have passed laws which empower people…be they cops or the governor…to enact orders & regulations. They have the same force as laws, and should be treated as such. Or you saying that a person can ignore a police officer’s orders, since the cops don’t actually have the power to make laws? Please clarify…thanks.
Adding to the list of silly commentary? Many hospitals were and still are seriously in the red from COVID. I’ll assume you just didn’t know that…
“Police man saying “stop” isn’t issuing a law either, but the penalty for ignoring that order could be instant death.”
Actually, there is a law if you disregard what the cops says, usually, resisting arrest. The cops are following the law on the books. They are not making things up as they go along. And there is a standard regarding making arrest.
However, with governors, mayors and others, they are making things up things as they go along. There are no standards. Here in Arizona, bars that serve food are open but those who don’t are closed. That doesn’t make sense. And it is up to the whim of a governor or mayor to decide what is open or not.
Yes, there are laws which empower the police to arrest people. But are you saying there are no laws which empower the governor, mayor, and others to issue emergency orders?
And not sure how things are in AZ, but here in WI the Legislative Branch can override/repeal a Governor’s emergency order with a simple majority vote. Do you not have any checks&balances in your neck o’ the woods?
I am not sure if they can legislate an override of a shut down. I know it is in the courts now. I guess that would be the checks and balances here.
Looking into a lil’ more, it appears that AZ passed some laws after 9/11 which gave broad powers to the Governor in times of emergency.
So since there are laws on the books which empower the Governor (and other officials) to enact emergency orders, why do you insist him doing so is unlawful?
Tuerqas, you’re not looking very hard if you haven’t ever heard an anti-masker claiming that it’s all a conspiracy, that the cases and numbers are inflated because the hospitals just want to extort more money from people and the gummint.
Thanks for looking it up, penquin.
I think our governor, a Republican is a complete idiot.
Is it lawful for him to shut down businesses? It’s in the courts and the courts have ruled for and against him, depending on the case.
“Tuerqas, you’re not looking very hard if you haven’t ever heard an anti-masker claiming that it’s all a conspiracy, that the cases and numbers are inflated because the hospitals just want to extort more money from people and the gummint.”
If it is so easy, please supply some links please.
I must not be looking very hard or hang out in the wrong crowds, but I have never heard this claim.
I guess I’m just more well-read than you, Mar.
Links? Here we go again.
I wasn’t asking about or commenting on how I have never heard of anti-maskers claiming that hospitals are getting rich. So are you saying that hospitals are getting rich or that anti-maskers are claiming that? This:
was mimicking ‘anti-maskers’ and not your own commentary? Not sure how anyone was supposed to get that since the ‘mainstream’ anti-maskers were the ones pointing out that hospitals were losing boatloads of money, while liberals were demanding that hospitals cancel many/most non-covid related surgeries to ‘protect’ the more vulnerable people who needed them.
Different sets of ‘facts’ make discussion between groups so difficult, you know? Almost as if our leaders wanted to keep us arguing so we weren’t looking at all the shit they were pulling…nah, sounds like a conspiracy theory.
Yes, T, I was making fun of the people who promote this conspiracy theory.
Okay, cool, but you know the vast majority of ‘anti-maskers’ say the opposite of that, right? And that the conservative pro-work right have been specifically complaining that liberal induced shutdowns are the cause of Hospitals losing upwards of 50 billion this year (and largely make up the anti-mask crowd). So you are making fun of a relatively small group of ignorant people, none of which seem to be at this site, not the anti-masker crowd. You all want to continually take pot-shots at the most extreme fringe rather than actually engage in intelligent conversation. Heck, Libertarians have some true nut balls. I suppose if we ever became relevant they would be the targets of ridicule for the whole group of us. I get so frustrated, Sheeplism SUCKS! Get over it guys.
Everyone should question their own views before they bash others and perhaps we would not have a billionaire President with the attitude, expressions and speech patterns of an ADHD eight year old going against someone whose mind may have already regressed back to a ten year old. Seriously, during the 5-8 minutes I watched of the debate, Trump did not finish two sentences, just threw out thoughts one after the other, and Biden with a carefully written speech and hidden mikes to get him through? These are the best, the pinnacle of the politicians we elect? Is there a worse condemnation of the American people?